Coe, ovett, cram head to head stats?

I'll take a stab, might be missing a few races but I think this is most of them:

78 Euro 800m: Ovett d Coe

80 Olympic 800m: Ovett d Coe

80 Olympic 1500m: Coe d Ovett d Cram

81 Zurich Mile: Coe d Cram

83 Gateshead 800m: Cram d Coe

83 Worlds 1500m: Cram d Ovett

83 Crystal Palace Mile: Cram d Ovett

84 Olympic 800m: Coe d Ovett

84 Olympic 1500m: Coe d Cram d Ovett

85 Oslo Mile: Cram d Coe

86 Euro 800m: Coe d Cram

86 Euro Mile: Cram d Coe

89 Crystal Palace 1500m: Coe d Ovett

Coe v Ovett: Coe 4-2

Coe v Cram: Coe 4-3

Cram v Ovett: 3-1

As you said, I think you've missed a few, but that list looks pretty good. I'm sure there was an 800 between Coe and Cram in 85 during a England vs USA match where Coe won.

Shame they didn't race more.

Yes wrote:

I'll take a stab, might be missing a few races but I think this is most of them:

78 Euro 800m: Ovett d Coe

80 Olympic 800m: Ovett d Coe

80 Olympic 1500m: Coe d Ovett d Cram

81 Zurich Mile: Coe d Cram

83 Gateshead 800m: Cram d Coe

83 Worlds 1500m: Cram d Ovett

83 Crystal Palace Mile: Cram d Ovett

84 Olympic 800m: Coe d Ovett

84 Olympic 1500m: Coe d Cram d Ovett

85 Oslo Mile: Cram d Coe

86 Euro 800m: Coe d Cram

86 Euro Mile: Cram d Coe

89 Crystal Palace 1500m: Coe d Ovett

Coe v Ovett: Coe 4-3

Coe v Cram: Coe 4-3

Cram v Ovett: 3-1

Fixed bolded, they raced 7 times, and went 4-3 with coe being ahead. the one you missed was a xc race they had when they were boys.

Yes wrote:

I'll take a stab, might be missing a few races but I think this is most of them:

78 Euro 800m: Ovett d Coe

80 Olympic 800m: Ovett d Coe

80 Olympic 1500m: Coe d Ovett d Cram

81 Zurich Mile: Coe d Cram

83 Gateshead 800m: Cram d Coe

83 Worlds 1500m: Cram d Ovett

83 Crystal Palace Mile: Cram d Ovett

84 Olympic 800m: Coe d Ovett

84 Olympic 1500m: Coe d Cram d Ovett

85 Oslo Mile: Cram d Coe

86 Euro 800m: Coe d Cram

86 Euro Mile: Cram d Coe

89 Crystal Palace 1500m: Coe d Ovett

Coe v Ovett: Coe 4-2

Coe v Cram: Coe 4-3

Cram v Ovett: 3-1

Missing a few, such as Ovett beating Cram in '85.

It's a shame they never really raced when all in their best shape. Ovett in 78 vs Coe in 81 vs Cram in 85 would have been something to behold.

Miss those days!

Thanks for the stats.

All races (heats excluded):

Coe vs Ovett 4-3

Coe vs Cram 7-3

Ovett vs Cram 14-5

Cram already ran a lot of races in 79-81 when Coe and Ovett were at their best.

Interesting thing about Cram: He beat Cruz, Aouita and Bile! Something his older peers could't do anymore. "The competitor supreme!"

52.43 wrote:

All races (heats excluded):

Coe vs Ovett 4-3

Coe vs Cram 7-3

Ovett vs Cram 14-5

Cram already ran a lot of races in 79-81 when Coe and Ovett were at their best.

Interesting thing about Cram: He beat Cruz, Aouita and Bile! Something his older peers could't do anymore. "The competitor supreme!"

That's probably got domething to do with Cram being 4 years younger!

Coe did beat Cruz (81 World Cup 800m) and pretty sure he beat Bile too; though can't remember exactly when off hand, will look it up when I get in from work. I think it was 84 or 86.

Coe never ran against Aouita.

JRinaldi wrote:

As you said, I think you've missed a few, but that list looks pretty good. I'm sure there was an 800 between Coe and Cram in 85 during a England vs USA match where Coe won.

Shame they didn't race more.

Yes, Coe beat Cram over 800m in early 85 in a match v USA.

Another one missed off the list is a 1000m race in 1981, when Coe beat Cram by about 1 sec. Think it was Leicester!

deanouk wrote:

52.43 wrote:

All races (heats excluded):

Coe vs Ovett 4-3

Coe vs Cram 7-3

Ovett vs Cram 14-5

Cram already ran a lot of races in 79-81 when Coe and Ovett were at their best.

Interesting thing about Cram: He beat Cruz, Aouita and Bile! Something his older peers could't do anymore. "The competitor supreme!"

That's probably got domething to do with Cram being 4 years younger!

Coe did beat Cruz (81 World Cup 800m) and pretty sure he beat Bile too; though can't remember exactly when off hand, will look it up when I get in from work. I think it was 84 or 86.

Coe never ran against Aouita.

Yes, Coe beat Bile in the 84 LA semi 1500m (Bile then dsq), the Oslo Mile in 85 (Coe 3rd, Bile 5th) and the Zurich 1500m in 86 (Bile 6th)

lol lol lol lol wrote:

Yes wrote:

I'll take a stab, might be missing a few races but I think this is most of them:

78 Euro 800m: Ovett d Coe

80 Olympic 800m: Ovett d Coe

80 Olympic 1500m: Coe d Ovett d Cram

81 Zurich Mile: Coe d Cram

83 Gateshead 800m: Cram d Coe

83 Worlds 1500m: Cram d Ovett

83 Crystal Palace Mile: Cram d Ovett

84 Olympic 800m: Coe d Ovett

84 Olympic 1500m: Coe d Cram d Ovett

85 Oslo Mile: Cram d Coe

86 Euro 800m: Coe d Cram

86 Euro Mile: Cram d Coe

89 Crystal Palace 1500m: Coe d Ovett

Coe v Ovett: Coe 4-2

Coe v Cram: Coe 4-3

Cram v Ovett: 3-1

Missing a few, such as Ovett beating Cram in '85.

Coe won the Zurich 1500m in 1980 in 3:32.19, with Cram in 5th.

So if you include this into the above, as well as Coe's win in 1981 over 1000m and Coe's 800m win in 1985, then the head to head between Coe and Cram is:-

Coe 7- Cram 3

All of these stats are nice but they don't really tell the story. Ovett was at his peak only through '81. Cram only began to reach his peak in '82. So Cram and Ovett never really raced each other at mutual full strength. Coe was somewhere in the middle.

At the end of the day, all of these wins/losses say more about in whose peak the races were run than they do about the relative strength of the runners.

Ovett beat Cram in the Moscow semi-finals, and Cram returned the favour in the Los Angeles semi-finals. If you include these as well the complete list is :

72 Hilllingdon Boys Cross Country Ovett d Coe

78 Euro 800m: Ovett d Coe

80 Olympic 800m: Ovett d Coe

80 Olympic 1500m (sf) Ovett d Cram

80 Olympic 1500m: Coe d Ovett d Cram

81 Zurich Mile: Coe d Cram

83 Gateshead 800m: Cram d Coe

83 Worlds 1500m: Cram d Ovett

83 Crystal Palace Mile: Cram d Ovett

84 Olympic 800m: Coe d Ovett

84 Olympic 1500m (sf) Cram d Ovett

84 Olympic 1500m: Coe d Cram d Ovett

85 GB vs USA 800m Coe d Cram

85 Oslo Mile: Cram d Coe

85 Westminister Mile Road Race Ovett d Cram

86 Euro 800m: Coe d Cram

86 Euro Mile: Cram d Coe

89 Crystal Palace 1500m: Coe d Ovett

Coe v Ovett: Coe 4-3

Coe v Cram: Coe 5-3

Cram v Ovett: 4-3

Coe also beat Cram in a 'Chariots of Fire' reenactment around (I think) Trinity Square at Cambridge University in 89 or 90.

Coe and Ovett raced against Cram when they were ill, and when Cram was still almost a teen, so these stats aren't very meaningful but nice for posterity.

Surely there was other races between 1980-1982 where Ovett beat Cram before he was physically mature, races including Walker and Scott. Ovett dominated pre-1982 match-ups but post that injury everything changed.

Coe and Ovett both raced the short stage of the Southern 12 stage relay in 1988 over 3Miles 553y. Ovett ran the first leg in 15:03, whereas Coe ran the third leg in 15:24. A year later Ovett ran 15:34 against Coe's 15:41. Would have been great to see them racing the same leg.

pass the baton wrote:

Coe and Ovett both raced the short stage of the Southern 12 stage relay in 1988 over 3Miles 553y. Ovett ran the first leg in 15:03, whereas Coe ran the third leg in 15:24. A year later Ovett ran 15:34 against Coe's 15:41. Would have been great to see them racing the same leg.

If this was the exact same distance for both, you have to credit Ovett with victory on time.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

pass the baton wrote:

Coe and Ovett both raced the short stage of the Southern 12 stage relay in 1988 over 3Miles 553y. Ovett ran the first leg in 15:03, whereas Coe ran the third leg in 15:24. A year later Ovett ran 15:34 against Coe's 15:41. Would have been great to see them racing the same leg.

If this was the exact same distance for both, you have to credit Ovett with victory on time.

LOL. Think you're clutching at straws a bit there. You can't really compare times from different legs in a relay, as it depends on where their team were and what competition they had around them. Likewise, comparing a X Country race from 1972 when Ovett (who matured physically a lot quicker anyway) was 16 and Coe a year younger at 15 isn't really a level playing field!

Heats also shouldn't count, as the goal is to qualify to the next round, not to win.

This is a more complete list, though I've probably still missed a few; excluding heats, relay legs and a cross country race when kids.

78 Euro 800m: Ovett d Coe;

79 Gateshead Emsley Carr Mile: Ovett d Cram;

79 London (Coca Cola) Mile: Ovett d Cram;

80 London (Eng v Bel v Sco v Swe) Mile: Ovett d Cram;

80 London (Talbot Games): Ovett d Cram;

80 Oslo Mile (WR): Ovett d Cram;

80 Olympic 800m: Ovett d Coe;

80 Olympic 1500m: Coe d Ovett d Cram;

80 Zurich 1500m: Coe d Cram;

80 London Mile (Golden Mile): Ovett d Cram;

81 Oslo (Bislet Games)1500m: Ovett d Cram;

81 Oslo (Oslo Games) Mile: Ovett d Cram;

81 Leicester 1000m: Coe d Cram;

81 London (Talbot Games) 1000m: Ovett d Cram;

81 Fana (Norway) 1500m: Ovett d Cram;

81 Zurich Mile (WR): Coe d Cram;

81 London (Coca Cola) 2 Miles: Ovett d Cram;

81 Sydney Mile: Ovett d Cram;

83 Gateshead 800m: Cram d Coe;

83 Worlds 1500m: Cram d Ovett;

83 Crystal Palace Mile: Cram d Ovett;

84 Olympic 800m: Coe d Ovett;

84 Olympic 1500m: Coe d Cram d Ovett;

85 GB vs USA 800m Coe d Cram;

85 Oslo Mile (WR): Cram d Coe;

85 Westminister Mile Road Race: Ovett d Cram;

86 Euro 800m: Coe d Cram;

86 Euro 1500: Cram d Coe;

88 Brussels 1500: Cram d Ovett (dnf);

89 Newcastle 5k road race: Cram d Ovett;

89 Crystal Palace 1500m: Coe d Ovett.

Coe v Ovett: Coe 4 - 2;

Coe v Cram: Coe 7 - 3;

Ovett v Cram: Ovett 14 - 5

I knew you'd pop back up to contest that, because it would shift the Coe-Ovett head to head ranking!

You really can't count the '84 Olympics per Ovett as he should not have been racing at all due to that bronchial condition. At least do the decency of putting an asterisk on those head-to-head scores.