Why Doesn't Ryan Hall go train with Renato Canova's Athletes?

You would think that based on Canovas success, not just Hall but plenty of other would rush to him.

What does it say when no one does? They are comfortable doing what they always do and accepting the results.

Ryan and Chad like to stay close to the kin folk down in Los Angeles. That's his wish.

While I would certainly at least consider training with Renato's crew if I was in Hall's position, I'll point out that Hall is hardly the first successful American marathoner to be self-coached.

Frank Shorter and Joanie were both either entirely self-coached or mostly self-coached. So it has been done and to win gold medals.

Frank relied on Jack Bachelor and Joannie relied on Bob Sevene.

I don't think he's desperate enough to resort to pharmaceutical enhancement just yet.

Yeah except Frank Shorter only had to self-coach himself to a 2:09. Hall needs to coach himself to a 2:04. And don't go mouthing off about "talent etc etc." Hall's 5k PR is only 10 seconds faster than Shorter's. His 10k PR is 15 seconds SLOWER.

Frank never broke 2:10........but he still has the GOLD! should of been two Gold's if it wasn't for CHEATpinski. The druggie.

Gary Oak wrote:

Yeah except Frank Shorter only had to self-coach himself to a 2:09. Hall needs to coach himself to a 2:04. And don't go mouthing off about "talent etc etc." Hall's 5k PR is only 10 seconds faster than Shorter's. His 10k PR is 15 seconds SLOWER.

That's really the issue and whether you can raise yourself to the same level compared to back in Shorter's day. The philosophy of Bob Giegengack, who coached Shorter in college, was to get an athlete to a point of understanding where he could coach himself. We know more about training now than when Shorter was competing, so it's likely that Shorter with the same philosophy could run faster with modern knowledge (he would only need to pick up on some of the good stuff Renato's posted on this site).

Can you get to the top level of the event training alone (and not just the coaching but the whole support staff that Hall left behind at Mammoth Lakes)?

I don't know the answer to that and I'm not sure anyone else does until someone like Hall tries it completely and either succeeds or fails. All I know is that it's been done to the gold medal level in the past.

I think the bigger concern is to compare Mosop's 5K/10K times with Hall's.

basicsense? wrote:

He could train with athletes who could push him to the level he wants to run at training with Canova's athletes, train under a great coach and there's plenty of mission work to satisfy that aspect of his desire.

that would sort of defy the whole point of 'faith-based training', though, wouldn't it?

instead of basing his training on his fictional entity, he'd have to base it on the knowledge and insight of someone he can actually see, touch, feel, etc. now he gets to wake up every morning and delude himself into thinking some supernatural deity actually gives a sh!t about his inconsequential existence and his wholly pointless running. why would he want to give that all up?

PreRunner wrote:

Frank never broke 2:10........but he still has the GOLD! should of been two Gold's if it wasn't for CHEATpinski. The druggie.

Yes, but winning the gold without having to compete against the African brigade is...well...not really winning the gold at all.

In all seriousness, you could take a generic Kalenjin Kenyan off the streets and should he train for maybe a year or so, he'd probably be near Shorter's lifetime PR's in the marathon...

Seyta wrote:

In all seriousness, you could take a generic Kalenjin Kenyan off the streets and should he train for maybe a year or so, he'd probably be near Shorter's lifetime PR's in the marathon...

that's retarded. a year or so?

get real.

You all seem to think that Canova is some sort of wizard that can turn anyone into a 2,05 runner. Sure, he´s extremley knowledgeable but he is also working with bets of the best. Ther are probably legions of coaches that could achieve the same results if they had his running material to work with.

I´m a lot more impressed by Colm O´Connell who basically take kids and turn them into world class runners.

spot on.

god says no wrote:

Seyta wrote:

In all seriousness, you could take a generic Kalenjin Kenyan off the streets and should he train for maybe a year or so, he'd probably be near Shorter's lifetime PR's in the marathon...

that's retarded. a year or so?

get real.

I'd be willing to bet that well over 50% run sub 2:20.

the other way around wrote:

I'd be willing to bet that well over 50% run sub 2:20.

that's a bet based nothing more on your fanciful ignorance and general stupidity.

god says no wrote:

that's a bet based on nothing more than your fanciful ignorance and general stupidity.

fixed

Hall has said time and again that he wants to train by himself, not with a group. I think he means it.

Whether he would be a 2:03 guy if he moved to Iten, who knows.

He has said that he has a small group of advisors - for all we know, Canova is one of them.

bigger point is, he doesn't have a 'I will do whatever it takes to win a medal' attitude. For better or worse.

Well, after enough years of 2:08's and being dropped, I would imagine he is going to have to change is attitude. Canova is not a "wizard" but he does have a group of people who could push Ryan. Ryan was not pushed in Mammoth, so he hasn't actually trained in a group of the caliber of the Kenyans under Canova.

He obviously has the desire or wouldn't make the very, very large claims before every one of his races, which land him huge appearance fees. I feel that after Chicago, he no longer deserves these fees. He's being stubborn training off on his own and he hasn't actually improved since his Olympic Trials marathon explosion onto the scene.

basicsense? wrote:

He obviously has the desire or wouldn't make the very, very large claims before every one of his races, which land him huge appearance fees. I feel that after Chicago, he no longer deserves these fees. He's being stubborn training off on his own and he hasn't actually improved since his Olympic Trials marathon explosion onto the scene.

they don't give him appearance fees just because he is fast - although he is the best American marathoner, w/o question. He gets biggish $ because he is an appealing guy. Women, who are the majority of runners now - find him attractive. He gets attention to the race.