Question about comparing D1 D2 and D3 XC

First off, IMO D3 and D1 are miles apart in talent, so that would explain the discrepancy between the times, NOT the type of course they are running.

As for why D3 doesnt join us big boys and run a 10K, I am guess there are just too many athletes that would run VERY slow, possibly not finish. I mean same reason why woman dont run 10K's or 8K's in XC for that matter.

any other brain busters

D1 running a 10k at the end of the season doesn't make sense. Why race one distance all year and then change it up for championships? No other sport does this.

Most of the top D3 teams stick to bigger meets, which are generally pretty fast. Good D1 teams do the same thing. If you're JV you might get to run on some slow courses.

whsdistdude1 wrote:

is there that much of a difference between a 8K and 10K?

Yeah... it's about 2k.

Maybe the great and all powerful NCAA figures that D3 can't cut it with the big guns in D1. D3 guys must be VERY slow and can't finish a 10K XC race that a D1 coach wouldn't ever consider giving them a scholarship, isn't that the reason they are running at that level? How many good D3 guys would cut it at a D1 school?

probably not much more than 9-10 guys, but that's just the truth

seriously? I heard that there was more of an over lap than that. You can't be taking into acount every D1 team, some I even know suck.

D3 is better than D2 in somethings, like depth at the championship meet. And DIII schools tend to be a lot better academically (Williams, MIT, NYU)

I honestly believe that if a lot of the D3 dudes ran a 10K they'd do better, a lot of the programs in D3 let their runners develope and train more and think of the long term, unlike the now now now d1 mentality. personally, i think that there are about 5-10 d3 runners every year that would be D1 all-Americans,

XC courses depend on what is available on or near a host school campus and have nothing to do with NCAA division. The NCAA rulebook gives guidance on course length and other requirements. The rule for men used to be 8k-10k length, and division I or II schools would run 10k for NCAA regionals and championships. Now, there are occaisonal "short" courses during the regular season of 5k, 4 miles, etc. If if a course is too difficult (windy, hilly, uneven surface), visiting coaches will often complain, so there's been a trend to running on golf courses, etc. that are flat and fast. Some division III schools will regularly schedule races against division II and I schools at invitational meets. Many division I schools only emphasize the revenue sports of football and basketball with scholarships and have essentially "walk-on" teams for XC.

I cannot even begin to tell you how wrong you are. Comparing D3 to D1 is like comparing Freshmen in highschool to seniors in high school, YES every once in a while one can run with the big boys, MAYBE, even win a medal, but by in large, they need to be focusing on frosh/soph conference, and the seniors need to focus on state

here is another thing I wanted to ask about, I have noticed that D1 often lets D2 and D3 run at their meets, but they just put them in a different race, why? Wouldn't it make sense to have placement based on the strength of the team?

Dude west coast is all the way cool

?I don't get it?

I'm just assuming so the course won't be too crowded, but that's just my guess.

I do have a few questions about about the different divisions.

What is the academic aid (tutors, study halls, etc.) like at top D2 schools and the majority of D1 schools?

And what is the difference between the amount of gear given out, again between top D2 programs and D1?

I am considering some mid pack D1 schools and some top D2 schools, so anything else that can help distinguish the two would be great!

Jumpin jimmy wrote:

I cannot even begin to tell you how wrong you are. Comparing D3 to D1 is like comparing Freshmen in highschool to seniors in high school, YES every once in a while one can run with the big boys, MAYBE, even win a medal, but by in large, they need to be focusing on frosh/soph conference, and the seniors need to focus on state

We used to make fun of DI academics (or lack thereof for the majority students/schools) on the way back from meets. Just saying.

Indeed, DI has much better runners than DIII. Once every few years might be a DIII runner who could be All-American in DI. Take the top 25 in DIII and most could make varsity on all but the very top DI teams. The top 50 from DIII? Probably could be top 7 on most teams ranked below 10 or 15 from DI.

whsdistdude1 wrote:

Just wanted to ask some basic High Schooler Questions about the different divisions, and wanted some feed back.

(1) So I have heard that D3 runs a 8K XC race all year, but then does not move up to a 10K for Regionals and Nationals... why is that? is there that much of a difference between a 8K and 10K?

(2) I also asked a friend that ran at a D3 school, and he claims that D1 and D2 only run fast flat courses, whereas D3 will run on very challenging XC courses, is that true? I mean I like the idea of running a challenging course, but I also want to be able to compare how well I am doing to other athletes in D1 and D2. Thoughts?

I've run both Division I and III. The top 10-12 schools in Division I are no joke. The entire team is generally stacked and unless you were a state-ranked athlete in HS chances are you will not make the varsity squad.

However, there are also DI teams that are not quite as competitive in terms of their roster but they still train hard. They are very comparable to the top D2 and D3 teams.

To tell you about my experience, briefly, I walked-on to a DI program as a freshman and was ignored more than any athlete on the roster. I had not apparent talent but practiced incredibly hard. I showed no improvements in race times by the end of the year and none of the coaches cared to ask what I would be doing for summer training. It was clear I was mascott material.

I transferred to a DIII school and under the guidance, patience, and training of my new coach I shaved 6 minutes off of my XC time to earn All-American and 7 minutes off of my 10,000m to earn another All-American.

Granted, these times would not have earned me All-American as a DI athlete and I am fully aware of the difference in competition; however they are still something I NEVER would have accomplished under the influence of the DI program I was in before. They are also perfomances that PLENTY of DI runners will never make.

I do believe there is still a level of competition at the top DI schools that you cannot find anywhere else; however, this should not be the reason you choose your program. You want to choose a program based off of the coaching staff and athletic environment. You want to thrive not just as an athlete, but as an individual. When you are not just a name on a roster and another stat, that is when you are capable of great things.

Good D1 teams

Good D2 teams

Good D3 teams

Mediocre D1 teams

Mediocre D2 teams

Mediocre D3 teams

Bad D1 teams

Bad D2 teams

Bad D3 teams

All new-englands gives us a pretty good idea of hierarchy as does a variety of invitationals nationwide.

http://neicaaa.org/XC/2010XC.html

(The good D1 teams are running a B team)

its really simple wrote:

Good D1 teams

Good D2 teams

Good D3 teams

Mediocre D1 teams

Mediocre D2 teams

Mediocre D3 teams

Bad D1 teams

Bad D2 teams

Bad D3 teams

All new-englands gives us a pretty good idea of hierarchy as does a variety of invitationals nationwide.

http://neicaaa.org/XC/2010XC.html

(The good D1 teams are running a B team)

That's probably a decent breakdown, but being honest, it is probably like this:

Top 20-30 DI Teams

Top 5-10 DII Teams

Top 5 DIII Teams

30-50 DI Teams

10-25 DII Teams

5-20 DIII Teams

Everybody else...

I would say the top DIII team is usually somewhere between the 20th and 40th best team in the country (across all divisions) in any given year, depending on the quality of teams.

There is not the talent gap between D-I and D-III cross country as there is in major sports such as basketball and football. Outside of the very best D-I schools (top ten) the gap between good DI and DIII is not that large. I suspect this is because of a lack of scholarship money at most schools for cross country.

I think the above poster is right about the placement except I think the top DIII schools are probably about 20-30 in the nation most years. Haverford just beat 25 D-I schools in the top Paul Short race...and they are not known as a good early season team. I am guessing by November they will be better than several, if not more, top 20 D-I schools.

The fact is...you would never see a top D-III hoops or football team even being able to remotely compete with a top 20 D-I hoops or football team. Unless, you are among the very best, don't close your mind to D-III---pick the school based on the best academic, athletic and social fit.