weakmusclesstrongmind
WEIGHT TRAINING AND MIDDLE DISTANCE RUNNING 10/4/2011 11:25PM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I do not necessarily want to make this thread about me; rather, I would rather see a discussion about ideal weight training for the middle distance runner. BUT… I will start with some information about me and my question concerning the topic.
-I have been running 7 years.
-70mi/week [DANIELS]
-17:50 5k, 5:25 mile … 25 year old male … (I know)
After discussing my love for running and my inability to perform well, someone suggested weight training. When I attempted it, I think I found, perhaps, why I perform so terribly. I have NO power whatever. I couldn’t half squat the bar+10lbs .. That’s not good.

Now, I have read so much conflicting information on how to weight training effective for runners. Right now, I am starting from the ground up and focusing on 800m/1500m/mile. Do I do “low weight/high rep” or “high weight/low rep” or something in between? From my above statements, you can tell I have no power or speed. I am taking a break from mile to work on WT … PLEASE HELP! Any input would be great, whether geared to me specifically or WT for 800m/1500m in general.
weakmusclesstrongmind
RE: WEIGHT TRAINING AND MIDDLE DISTANCE RUNNING 10/4/2011 11:27PM - in reply to weakmusclesstrongmind Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Now, I have read so much conflicting information on how to weight train effective for runners. Right now, I am starting from the ground up and focusing on 800m/1500m/mile. Do I do “low weight/high rep” or “high weight/low rep” or something in between? From my above statements, you can tell I have no power or speed. I am taking a break from the miles [i.e. only running about 40-50) to work on WT … PLEASE HELP! Any input would be great, whether geared to me specifically or WT for 800m/1500m in general.
JohnnyHotDog5k
RE: WEIGHT TRAINING AND MIDDLE DISTANCE RUNNING 10/4/2011 11:42PM - in reply to weakmusclesstrongmind Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
work on body weight movement ability first, like proper body squats, plyo jumps, etc before you start hitting the heavier weights. once you get good form down and can do the body stuff easily that means youve strengthened your muscles enough to move onto weights. hit those with proper form and do like 3x5 reps in compound exercises. squats, romanian deadlift, cleans, etc.
Suggestion
RE: WEIGHT TRAINING AND MIDDLE DISTANCE RUNNING 10/5/2011 5:24AM - in reply to JohnnyHotDog5k Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
1.) Search the archives at letsrun for posts by runningart. His knowledge on lifting is pretty good.
2.) Are you doing BODYWEIGHT training? Push-ups. Squats. Planks. Chin-ups. Wall sits. Sit-ups. Leg lifts. Split squats & single leg squats.
3.) Check out Jay Johnson's website for some exercise routines. (* I suspect Johnson would suggest Vern Gambetta's book "Movement, Not Muscles" too.)

Good luck!
0bi
RE: WEIGHT TRAINING AND MIDDLE DISTANCE RUNNING 10/5/2011 8:16AM - in reply to weakmusclesstrongmind Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Like any good program you have to periodize the weight training too, you cant just choose and do just low reps or just hig reps training the whole freaking season. Generally it goes Anatomical Adaptation (high volume, low weight) - MaxStrenght(med volume/heavy) - Power (Plyos and etc), it usually varies depending on the sport for example shot putters and football players have an Hypertrophy phase (high volume/moderate weight before MaxS. Sprinters have minimal Power End phase but middle distance guys have a bigger Power End phase, the duration and type of each phase will depend on your sport. Marathoners MaxS phase is very short for example.
Anyways buy books about periodization ("Periodization" by Tudor Bompa, it covers periodization for every sport I like it a lot) to really get to the bottom of it.
some crazy runner guy
RE: WEIGHT TRAINING AND MIDDLE DISTANCE RUNNING 10/5/2011 8:47AM - in reply to weakmusclesstrongmind Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
how many great 1500m runners from kenya and ethiopia do you see giving interviews who claim that it was the weights that got them where they were? How many even look like they have picked up a weight in there life? Stop worrying about weights and worry about running.
Shuffle
RE: WEIGHT TRAINING AND MIDDLE DISTANCE RUNNING 10/5/2011 10:09AM - in reply to some crazy runner guy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

some crazy runner guy wrote:

how many great 1500m runners from kenya and ethiopia do you see giving interviews who claim that it was the weights that got them where they were? How many even look like they have picked up a weight in there life? Stop worrying about weights and worry about running.


http://members.iinet.net.au/~peterg1/run/el_train.html

Some of El G's training:


First preparation cycle (from October 18 to November 7, 1996)
(Date)|| a.m. || p.m.
18 || Aerobic endurance || strength work
19 || Aerobic endurance || Physical preparation
20 || Aerobic endurance || Aerobic endurance
21 || rest || strength work
22 || Power || Aerobic endurance
23 || Aerobic endurance || Physical preparation
24 || Aerobic endurance || strength work
25 || Rest || Aerobic endurance
26 || Aerobic endurance || Power
27 || Aerobic endurance || Aerobic endurance
28 || Aerobic endurance || strength work
29 || Rest || Rest
30 || Aerobic endurance || Aerobic endurance
31 || Aerobic endurance || Power
1 || Aerobic endurance || strength work
2 || Rest || Aerobic endurance
3 || Aerobic endurance || Aerobic endurance
4 || Aerobic endurance || strength work
5 || Aerobic endurance || Aerobic endurance
6 || Rest || Rest
7 || Aerobic endurance || strength work

Strength work
He works on the main muscle groups, but the coach believes in work the small ones as well, since those that have major influence in the posture. He utilizes free weights and special gym apparatus. During this stage he dose the following exercises:

Half-squat 6 x 20 reps with 25 kg bar
Half-squat 4 x 16 reps with 30 kg bar
Squat 4 x 16 reps with 20 kg bar

In machines/apparatus:
Hamstrings 4 x 16 reps
Quadriceps 4 x 16 reps
Abductors 4 x 16 reps
Adductors 4 x 16 reps
Lunges 4 x 20 reps with 25 kg bar
Step-up 1 x 20 reps with 30 kg bar with each leg
Abdominal 300-400 reps
Back 300-400 reps

Power
He does once a week up-hills 10 x 300 m and horizontal jumps and vertical jumps over hurdles



Second preparation cycle (March 30 to April 19, 1997)
This cycle started after the World Indoor Champs. During this stage high intensity parameters are added.

(Date)|| a.m. || p.m.
March 30, 1997 || Aerobic endurance || Strength work
31 || Rest || Race Pace
April 1st || Aerobic endurance || Aerobic endurance
2 || Aerobic endurance || Power
3 || Aerobic endurance || Race Pace
4 || Aerobic endurance || Rest
5 || Aerobic endurance || Power
6 || Aerobic endurance || Race pace
7 || Aerobic endurance || Aerobic endurance
8 || Aerobic endurance || Power
9 || Aerobic endurance || Aerobic endurance
10 || Rest || Aerobic endurance
11 || Aerobic endurance || Race pace
12 || Aerobic endurance || Rest
13 || Aerobic endurance || Strength work
14 || Aerobic endurance || Aerobic endurance
15 || Aerobic endurance || Aerobic endurance
16 || Aerobic endurance || Power
17 || Aerobic endurance || Rest
18 || Aerobic endurance || Aerobic endurance
19 || Aerobic endurance || Race pace

Power
200-300 Multi-jumps.
Up-hill reps: 10 x 300m with jog back recovery.
Up-hill reps: 5 x 150 m

Strength work
The work is very similar to the previous cycle. The only difference is that the coach sets the total duration of the session:1h 30 min, but El Guerrouj chooses the exercises, using free weights and machines.


El G gradually phased the lifting and plyos (i.e. "Power" sessions) out during the meat of the competitive season, but it was an instumental part of his preparation phase and early season program.

I know you (or someone else) will say, "The quote was about how many Kenyan and Ethiopian athletes you see lifting and all that". Well, here's a video (for you visual learners out there) of one of Geb's gym sessions, which he did reguarly and the info is very easily google'd.

http://runwitharthurlydiard.blogspot.com/2010/11/haile-gebrselassie-strength-workout.html

And here's an added quote from Geb for extra spice:


But he modestly explained his regime: "The morning training is always the most important.

"Normally, I am training for about three hours, and when it's two months before a competition, I will be doing about 35k in that morning slot.

"In the early evening, I spend most of my time in the gym doing strength work.

"But even if I am in the gym, I will still do 10k on the treadmill and another 10k on the bike.

"Then I will do some strength training. That is seven days a week, except for Sunday, when I only do the morning session."


Lastly, although the information is not very easily found, even Renato Canova includes "Gym Sessions" ( http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4213844&page=2 and http://www.vivamarathon.dk/rCanovaMarathonTrainingMethods.html) in the preparatory phases to get his athletes musculature strong enough to handle the stresses of the coming training.


Should weight training/plyos be the key component of your training? No. Do African athletes incorporate this into their training programs? Yes. It has it's place, and it's up to the athlete (and their coach if applicable) to determine how to best use and implement it.