Oscar Pistorius gets his A

He does not belong in the able body world champs. He should compete in the para. olympics. This is a travesty of justice.

In the 2006 paralympic world champs he only ran 49.42 (at age 20), now at 25 he runs 45 flat.

No able bodied runner has ever improved that much from age 20 to 25. That's all you need to know to see the advantage he has.

hey now... wrote:

[quote]NotATroll wrote:

Are you scared that a person with a disability might beat an able bodied person at something on a relatively level playing field?

Nothing new dude.....The world record for a wheelchair is at least 45 minutes faster. Is that level????

Thing is, if the IAAF allows him to run at Worlds--and they will, they will--then when he makes the final/medals/wins/sets a WR, they will NOT "retroactively DQ him"--as someone suggested.

That would mean a) opening themselves to all kinds of lawsuits, which (in PR terms) they cannot win, regardless of the actual judgment; and, more importantly, b) admitting they were wrong to let him run in the first place. Never happen.

It's been said before: in principle, there is nothing to keep him from upgrading his legs until he runs 42.xx; and if he were allowed to run an 800 (and trained for it), he would break 1:40.

miltonbradley wrote:

In the 2006 paralympic world champs he only ran 49.42 (at age 20), now at 25 he runs 45 flat.

No able bodied runner has ever improved that much from age 20 to 25. That's all you need to know to see the advantage he has.

Actually, OP ran 47.34 in 2005 to set a disability sports WR. He ran that at the South Africian able body national championships, winning the race.

lease wrote:

Thing is, if the IAAF allows him to run at Worlds--and they will, they will--then when he makes the final/medals/wins/sets a WR, they will NOT "retroactively DQ him"--as someone suggested.

That would mean a) opening themselves to all kinds of lawsuits, which (in PR terms) they cannot win, regardless of the actual judgment; and, more importantly, b) admitting they were wrong to let him run in the first place. Never happen.

It's been said before: in principle, there is nothing to keep him from upgrading his legs until he runs 42.xx; and if he were allowed to run an 800 (and trained for it), he would break 1:40.

The IAAF did not let him in. They were ordered to allow him to compete by the CAS. There is no allow about it.

Why doesn't someone just make those blades for a person who does have both their legs? Oh wait, that wouldn't be allowed....hrm.....oh you say its an advantage.....well then.....where's the logic saying O.P. should be able to run?

sort of reminds me of this:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?id=6754598

one less leg was actually an advantage for the guy, crazy.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

The IAAF did not let him in. They were ordered to allow him to compete by the CAS. There is no allow about it.

Yeah, I remembered this just as I was hitting "Post Message." The IAAF, like most other international sports federations, has recognized the CAS's authority, which is binding on the IAAF.

The only sense in which the IAAF "allows" OP to compete is the sense that it "allows" the CAS's ruling to stand--which it is (contractually, I believe) obliged to do.

Hence this injustice will stand, just as Semenya's will (and if it weren't for OP, we'd be hearing a lot more about CS's drive toward another WC title, which she should win easily). Both of them are playing the cards they were dealt, and it's hard for me to be angry at them; it's pretty easy for me to be angry with the powers-that-be who have permitted these two special athletes to participate.

I'm sure he would too. But he definitely wouldn't be running 45.07 on those legs.Did he negative-split his 45.07? The only runner EVER to negative split 400m.

tracks wrote:

I am sure that Oscar would rather have his legs instead of having to run on prosthetics.

That does suck a lot. The main difference I can see, though, is that to make a ramp or something takes more room and/or money vs just allowing blacks or whites into the same door. Basically segregation was based on something that was fictional and there aren't really any big differences between races, but unfortunately there is a physical difference between you and most people.

Don't fret though, because in 30 years everyone will be obese and in wheelchairs too.

When Oscar sets the WR at the 2012 Olympic Games and half of the track fans are pitching a major hissy fit about rules, advantages and regulations while the casual fan is celebrating Oscar's miraculous, feel-good accomplishment, they will see the true deep-seated pettiness of the passionate track fan. Being more bent up on rules and regs than Oscar's accomplishment will be bad for track & field PR no matter how you slice it unless everyone embraces Oscar Pistorius, who is also a great and humble ambassador to the sport.

Unfortunately, I believe Oscar has a huge advantage and his records should not stand. He also should not be eligible for the IAAF World Championships or 2012 Olympic Games.

The dilemma is, how will any of Oscar's performances be ratified or denied in the wake of all of this potentially positive or negative publicity. If we find the old white men who make all of the rules intolerable, imagine how the general public will feel if they refuse to ratify Oscar's performances, or even stripping him of a medal or record!

Downhill Living wrote:

Also, hey now I'm sorry that becoming disabled has apparently turned you into such a bitter and cynical person. This has nothing to do with rights for disabled people and I'm sorry you can't see that.

Not cynical or bitter. I lead a really really good life, partly because I was a white, educated, good looking male from a middle class family before I got hurt - and I still am. This has conveyed many advantages to me that would not have been extended a poor black man with the same physical disability.

But I did graduate work in biblical studies/theology/philosophy before changing paths and entering the educational field, and through all of these experiences I've been given the opportunity to understand a little bit about how those in power maintain power.

How do you feel about "separate but equal" as a policy? I would assume you now agree with Brown v. BOE as far as racial segregation goes. But even if you did think that "separate but equal" is a good policy for "special" athletes - note the rhetorical effect of deeming an athlete special - do you really think that the Paralympics provide an "equal" competitive experience for Oscar Pistorius?

hey now... wrote:

But even if you did think that "separate but equal" is a good policy for "special" athletes - note the rhetorical effect of deeming an athlete special - do you really think that the Paralympics provide an "equal" competitive experience for Oscar Pistorius?

Equal? No, of course not.

Appropriate? Yes.

What do scientific studies show about the start? Out of the blocks?

There are probably VERY few studies with Pistorius caliber athletes out of the gates. In EVERY race I've seen him start (Go to Flotrack, you can find about 10) he has great difficulty in starting. I have done no research, study, or science experiment, but I can hypothesize the reason for his slow start being that HE HAS NO LEGS. zero, zilch, none. This man is coming into a race, after the first 10 seconds. Listen to the excitement in Adam's voice on Flotrack as he calls out that Oscar "The Blade Runner" is catching the field on the final curve! This is track, This is SPORT! A man comes from 10 meters back or more to make up the break, make up for the diversity, and win the race! I don't care if he doesnt get through WC heats. I don't care if the SPORT bans him from running because some of you guys whine too loudly about it. What he's done in that race, that video on flotrack, can never be erased! It's brilliant. It's exciting. It's what letsrun is all about.

Trying Hard To Win wrote:

That does suck a lot. The main difference I can see, though, is that to make a ramp or something takes more room and/or money vs just allowing blacks or whites into the same door. Basically segregation was based on something that was fictional and there aren't really any big differences between races, but unfortunately there is a physical difference between you and most people.

Ha ha, awesome. Good job justifying your dominance: " 'Seperate is inherently unequal' doesn't apply here because, you see... You really are different."

lease wrote:

hey now... wrote:

But even if you did think that "separate but equal" is a good policy for "special" athletes - note the rhetorical effect of deeming an athlete special - do you really think that the Paralympics provide an "equal" competitive experience for Oscar Pistorius?

Equal? No, of course not.

Appropriate? Yes.

Ok, that's fine. But what you're saying here is that people with disabilities either do not merit or cannot be given equal opportunities. I would guess that you're going to go with the second option, that it is impossible to give people with disabilities equal opportunities... but I will again note that, rather than being factual, this is another rhetorical way for the winners justify dominance.

Some people wear spikes, some people wear carbon blades.

Each is using the technology available that best allows them to run.

What's the problem?

There ARE competition rules, and these are needed to make competition fair to everyone. And this is what the IAAF Competition rules for 2011 say about shoes:

Such shoes, however, must not be constructed so as to give an athlete any unfair additional assistance, including by the incorporation of any technology which will give the wearer any unfair advantage.

Regarding Mr. Semenya, we don't know if he is intentionally holding back right now, but a bunch of people are going to look pretty silly if neither of them wins a medal in Deagu.

re: negative splits

after 2008, Pistorius changed his approach to the 400.

He charges the first 100, 200 as hard as he can.

He ran positive splits a year ago when he ran his then PB 46.02 and he was slightly positive split during his PB in March 45.61.

I don't know his splits for yesterday's 45.07 but would like to see them.

I'll go look for the race at Flotrack.