Muddy Girl, it has taken me multiple decades to learn that, regardless of my ambitious well-constructed workout plans, if the body says it needs more rest, then it needs more rest. After figuring that out I am no longer disappointed but still often confused. I assume from your comment about "my files are super heavy and I park a distance from court..." that you are in the legal profession. Since January I now am a very happily retired lawyer, other than continuing to do bits and pieces of work for my sons' business activities. Between stress, sitting for long hours and lugging heavy files (and now computers) around, the legal profession is not a great adjunct to good running training. My current regimen of home renovation, landscape work and surfing seems to be much more helpful to running well.
Charlie,
Thanks. Therapeutic to talk about it.
Like the video...a bit of driftwood out on the jetty.
Igy
Muddy Girl, what you describe sounds very much like the injury that ended my career as an open runner 27 years ago. I went for my usual Saturday morning club run, which was fast and had lots of hills, but no faster or hillier than a typical Saturday morning run. But this time, about 6-8 miles into the run at the top of a tough hill, I suddenly felt what seemed like a bad cramp in my butt that wouldn't go away. I finally had to walk back to my car, and after arriving home I could hardly walk at all.
I took some time off running and it got somewhat better, but the feeling of painful butt cramps never really went away. I saw multiple orthopedists and physical therapists and none could find anything wrong with me except that I was extremely stiff in all dimensions. They all gave me stretching exercises to do, which only made the problem worse. I could do some running at a slow pace, but every time I tried to do anything hard I would end up crippled. Gradually I gave up serious running, gained 25 pounds, and switched over to mostly cycling.
About 8 years later I had an epiphany. Somehow I figured out that perhaps the way I was sleeping was causing my problems. I often slept on my back, which shortens up the butt muscles. I tried to force myself to sleep on my side in a fetal position, with my legs curled in front of me and my butt stretched out. It took me a long time to learn to sleep this way and to learn to wake up whenever I'd flop over onto my back, but gradually the butt cramps went away. I've now been entirely free of this problem for about 15 years.
I have no idea whether this is related to your problem. Mine struck at age 33 when I had no other physical problems. But it's something to think about.
Hi Everyone!
My week started and ended well
Monday 18 on the bike light climbs felt good
Tuesday 1000 swim in 19" so cruising along 5 miles run hot and humid after flooding and I felt like crap avg 9 minute pace because I walked a half mile but was running 8:00 the other 4.5
Wednesday Shop ride 22 miles two good climbs firt time I went with the ride and let the HR climb into the 170's felt ok but I am heavy and out of shape
Thursday a bunch of my guys were being s$^t heads and causing me grief - I hate crap where they are jerks to each other it stresses me out. 2 miles in 16" no swim
Friday went to state park with my guys that are not stressing me out to run trails. Tripped and fell hard. Landed on my knee and just laid there shaking. Got up and after a few minutes finished the run.
Saturday Coached at Lockhaven and the team ran well. Sore from the fall. Got in the car and drove to Buffalo and did a 1.5 mile run in a Polish Catholic cemetery with Michellle
Sunday ran Masters XC nationals. 24:40 course was long. I was not last Michelle ran 3 minutes faster and got a 3rd in her age group. SO I now have been to Master Track and XC, Duathlon, Age Group Tri and Long Course Tri
Still working on being healthy and getting better
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
allen1959,
I think that is the way to do it as your get older. That way you are touching all the elements while getting enough rest to handle the loading.
Igy
Seems like I'm doing that too. Here were my last two weeks:
Week 1: 44.83 miles, including Fast Tempo (2 x 10 with 3 min jog in middle); 12x200 @ mile pace (42-43s), 1:00 recovery; and long run
Week 2: 46.14 miles, including 16x400m at 5K pace with sub-1:1 recovery, 6x90 second hill reps, 4-5min recovery; and long run
Maybe I should be doing T work weekly but there you have it - all the things I need in a two-week period.
I'm mostly relying on Pete Magill's book. Until I know what I'm doing I'm more comfortable relying on a well-chosen book plan and trying to understand why each workout is in there. I will take a rest day when I feel the need, right now that's every 2-3 weeks.
Re-reading Daniels, I don't understand why Dr Jack only prescribes E/L runs on non-workout days. There's a higher intensity run that's still comfortable but at least in the 1998 edition, he doesn't acknowledge that.
Mon. Mountain bike ride. 25 kms of hily trails in 1 h 48 m.
Tue. Warmup walk and jog then 3 x hill reps up Stafford Track on Mt William. Slow shuffly jog/walk back down between. The hill is 1.1 km long and gains 190 metres in elevation. I walked back down after the 3d. rep.
Total 5.6 kms 570 metres elevation gain 1 h 1 m.
Wed. 42 minutes of kayaking on the Campaspe River. They are currently releasing quite a bit of water from the Eppalock dam a few kms upstream. The river was a metre higher than it has been most of the winter. It was solid work going upstream. Pretty much like running an uphill tempo session followed by a fast free striding downhill.
Thu. 10.8 kms of fairly flat trail running around a section of local forest in 1 hour.
Fri. 38 km hilly trail and dirt farm lane mountain bike ride. 2 h 12 m.
Sat. 12 km trail/fire road run in the forest. Not too hilly, 260 metres elevation gain. 1 h 13 m.
Steady running until the 9th km when I followed a minor trail to the State Forest boundary. A vague trail headed off along the boundary and the farmers fenceline. This disappeared and I was left scrambling over fallen tree limbs and thick rocky scrub. That km took 8.40. I eventually found my way back to some better trails but ended up going a bit longer than the planned hour.
Sun. Pretty tired after a night shift and a sketchy couple of hours sleep. My brother called in(lives 200 kms away) to drop off one of his old road bikes. He is a good 60 plus masters rider. The bike is a model ridden in the 2013 TDF. He has much newer bikes and thought it might get some use at my place. I haven't had a roadie for about 15 years. Should be a bit of fun. Then I watched my beloved Hawks in their VFL Australian Football Grand Final. Our AFL boys were knocked out of the finals last week but our AFLW lasses had won their championship in the morning and our VFL (State league) boys won their's in a desperate thriller.
It was nearly dark by the time my excitement had settled enough to go for a run.
I trotted cautiously up through the rock gardens of Pianta Hill and along rocky trails on the McIvor Range then looped around the rail trail to collect an easy hour. Only 8.5 kms.
Night shift from Saturday to Thursday this week which always knocks me around.
I managed 4 plus hours of running and 4 hours of cycling last week so still getting a bit of fitness work in the bank.
Racerdb,
How are you handling the heel pain? Did you ever have in both feet? Mine was in the right foot and then moved over to the left after running Phila BS last May. A switch to Superfeet orthotic(green) helped also. Pain scale 1-2 but would love to totally get rid of it. Icing, stretching helps I think but not totally sure.
Muddy girl wrote:
My files are super heavy and I park a distance from court, so I'm lugging them for a while and I know my body can't handle it. My shoulders and lower back are really tight and locked up. I guess it's time for a dorky rolling briefcase. ;-P
MG, be kind to yourself. Have you looked into this? We swear by ours:
http://a.co/d/autVUHmStill bugging me. Why does Jack Daniels refer only to easy 30-minute runs and long runs? The bread and butter run for me is a bit harder and quite a bit longer, but still comfortable.
KCgeezer,
My interpretation is that a long run could still be a quality day. That is so in phase one 5k-15k and further phases in the marathon schedule. Something faster than an easy run but slower than a traditional tempo would be a long tempo. Daniels’ breaks down tempo runs further in the second edition (chapter 7, Threshold Training).
Igy
KCgeezer wrote:
Still bugging me. Why does Jack Daniels refer only to easy 30-minute runs and long runs? The bread and butter run for me is a bit harder and quite a bit longer, but still comfortable.
I am not sure what you are referring to. If you look at his "Gold" plan, his "easy" days are 60min at E (plus strides.)
As for longer, harder efforts, he has many long/medium long runs with M pace and T pace thrown in. And I think that's a better way of running a harder long run. Instead of running the entire distance at a faster pace, I try to run X miles at either MP or half marathon pace. His program is mostly about energy systems, but he recognizes there is a place for pace faster than E and slower than T.
Anyway, I hope to get back to running soon, even some T pace workouts. But in the meantime, here is my second week of non-running recovery.
M: off.
T: 20 min elliptical, 20 min Jacobs Ladder.
W: 20 min elliptical, 20 min Jacobs Ladder.
R: 20 min elliptical, 20 min Jacobs Ladder.
F; 20 min elliptical, 25 min Jacobs Ladder.
SA: 20 min elliptical, 20 min stationary bike.
SU: 30 min elliptical, 30 min stationary bike.
Finally, I feel comfortable enough to stand on an elliptical for 20-30 min. So no more stupid recumbent steppers. Now that's progress. I also figured out how to use my fitness tracker with a stationary bike. I am keeping the overall volume low to focus on my rehab. (stretching and foam rolling.) In addition to the marble pickup, I have started towel curl up as part of my rehab. my left foot is weaker than my right, as it takes longer to pick up marbles and harder to curl towel on my left .
On a positive note, I was able to do 5 reps of pistol squat on both sides with a 10 lbs medicine ball. So at least I am improving at something.
*Week 381*
Howdy, 50+ers! So long September! Warmest, wettest, most humid on record here in the Bluegrass (well, wettest, for sure, just guessing on the others)...but it did finally cool off this week, thank goodness! Best I can say is that I did get more running miles in in September than August. And this week I managed to get 5 runs in with even a little speed work, still the volume is low at just 20.6 miles of running (some walking, too.) Log Reads as such:
Sun: 5.0 easyish (8:26/mi)
Mon: Off
Tue: 4.2 (7:40/mi avg) w/6x200 (40-44s range)
Wed: Walking
Thu: 2.6 easy-to-moderate (8:06/mi) short run, things to do
Fri: 5.8 easy (8:32/mi) Felt good
Sat: 3.0 easyish (8:30/mi) Felt labored
Wasn't planning on running the full 5 on Sunday, but started feeling better after the 2nd mile, so I hung in there with the guys. It was a very soggy track session on Tuesday, but it felt pretty good to do those 200 on, 200 off reps. Thurs-Sat just tried to log some miles; surprised myself Friday as I kept adding on a little bit to get up to 5.8 miles, but Sat. was a chore. Also did some walking on Tues-Fri (about 9 miles worth.) I'm getting in the habit of walking for a bit after each run. Seems to help calm the knee a little. I'm trying to be more aggressive with the stick, as well. Little by little, am getting more mobility. Hopefully, I can get this fully behind me in the coming weeks, we'll see.
The thread was pretty quiet this week, but props on some good training (and some racing) from last week. I'll be running our second annual Bluegrass Mile this Friday evening on the harness track. I'm sure I won't duplicate last year's 6:18 effort, but it'll be fun nonetheless. If anyone's in the area, we'd love to have you join us! Proud of my sophomore nephew up in Wisconsin running 16:31 5k Friday night in the last Invite XC race, and surprised my old HS finished 5th in a very tough Griak field. Hard to believe that the Championship season is already starting up north.
As always, I look forward to your post. What's on your plate this coming month? Any races to report?
All the Best!
M59 -- 5'11" 162 lbs
Last year (2017) -- 18:58 5K, 3:07:23 marathon
This year (2018) -- 19:13 5K, 1:02:36 15K
Goals -- 19:00 5K this autumn; 3:00 marathon Oct. 2019
Sept 24-30, 2018
Off (planned)
LR -- 14.5 miles @ 7:20/mi
Off (work)
SP -- 1.2-mi warmup; 8 x 200m w/200m jog; 1.0-mi cooldown
Easy -- 7.0 miles @ 10:05/mi
Easy -- 7.0 miles @ 8:51/mi
Off (hamstring)
WEEK TOTAL: 32.7 MILES
Attempting some speedwork on Thursday, I pulled my left hamstring. Tried shuffling through a couple runs on Friday and yesterday, but it's still very sore. So, I'm taking today off, and hoping for a quick recovery ... racing a 5K in two weeks. I'm still looking for a sub-19 this year.
L2B 8 furlongs you ran 47.25 per furlong last year sounds fast I wanna race like the horses
Allen tough one wish you had a youtube channel I would follow for sure because of your goal setting which is hard but doable and your toughness.
A miko miko week for me 4 runs adding up to 4 hours of barefoot in the dunes 60,90,60,30
Stuff
Exercise and hormesis: oxidative stress-related adaptation for successful aging.
Exercise training increases skeletal muscle mitochondrial volume density by enlargement of existing mitochondria and not de novo biogenesis.
Plan is to keep working on lsd mileage and see how I feel so far so good I thought about jumping on the track and running a 1600 just to see where I am at. Oh what a difference 2 months of easy stuff makes. If the urge gets strong enough kinda like cheating on a diet I might indulge
My inconsistent constantly changing methods leads to a training plan I will call hormesis based training that is finding the safety zone of stress is the key to training progress which of course depends on your current state of health and fitness. How wide is this zone how to stay in this zone or can should you stay in the zone do injuries actually help you running is still a mystery and that is what I enjoy the most
Getting ready to head out to the track for a good workout. Cooler weather makes the legs feel light and frisky (maybe!) I had a good week of speed intervals and weights. My best workout last week was 3x300, 2x250, 2x200, 1x150, 1x100, 5x50. All of the intervals were at an approx. 9 seconds per 50 meters effort. I'm so happy that fall has arrived.
good luck in the mile! sounds like a fun event.
I had a good week to finish up September, including:
M 1:30 double
tu 2:05 double
W 1:00 incl. 30:00 at half-marathon pace [a little over 4.5 miles]
Th 2:20 double
F 55:00 + 1:00 x-t cycle class
Sa 1:00 incl. 10k x-c race (46:27, 5th OA*, 1st AG*)
Su 50:00 + 1:00 x-t
asterisks = would have been 7'th/2nd except that two runners incl. Jeff Duyn from my age group apparently got lost -- i didn't see them after race to get details, but (a) they were well ahead of me at the outset, (b) they always beat me, (c) i never passed them, and (d) they're in the results 15 mins. behind me. I've gotten lost on this course twice before but not this time.
Times were slow across the board -- i gather the parks people only ok'ed using the trails an hour before the race. Record rainfall for our area in September made it a muddy mess. Put positively, it was real cross-county -- logs to leap over, streams to cross and then scramble up the other side while slipping with each step, very hilly, etc. An adventure.
The actual day yesterday was beautiful -- 60 degrees and sunny. My wife came out to the race and we went canoeing afterward. Great weekend in DC area.
have a great week,
Dave
Good morning all. Eight days of RT complete and twelve to go. End of the week was tough with fatigue and a bout of diarrhea. Dropped the Saturday run with my friends in favor sleeping in and a walk with the wife. I still managed 28 miles of running/walking for the week.
Monday: 2 miles easy; 2 x ( 4 x 300m good speed / 100m walk; 400m walk/easy; 3 x 500m good swing / 300m walk; 400m walk/easy); mile easy/walk
Tuesday: 4 miles easy/walk; core; weights
Wednesday: 2 miles easy; 5 x /1,000m tempo @ 5:31 / 2:00 rest; mile easy/walk
Thursday: 4 miles easy/walk; weights
Friday: 3 mikes easy/walk
Saturday: 3 miles walk
Sunday: Off
Have a productive week.
Igy
Always good to read this newsletter Sunday morning.
Hope your hammy clears up fast Allen.
Good LucKY2b in the harness mile.
I've had one of those training weeks a few wks away from Huntsman Seniors 800/1500 that without question was a tightrope for injury. Highlights showing the risk of too much too soon with no where near enough recovery for an M58 Masters Maniac.
Sat Track 4 Sets 400 in 74-72 (200rest) 200 in 35-32 (400rest)
Sun 10miler with first 6 miles too damn hard (will I ever learn)
Tue Track 3x600 in 1:49-1:48-1:47 (5min rest) 3x200 in 32 (90sec rest)
Fri Track 800 in 2:36 (3min rest) 600 in 1:51 (3m rest) 200 in 35 (3m rest) 400 in 72
Was on the track by myself Friday and after that not-so-fast 400 ended up ON MY KNEES. Yes that string of 7 days was risky. You know what the in-between dasy were like = shitty stiff stale ugh runs.
I vowed too myself to take it easy for a few days; just let the walking and jogging around all day high school xc meet coaching count as something yesterday; take another short jog or nothing day today; get more sleep; forget about the stress at work; and find more joy with fresh legs. Wish me luck. Know that all y'all are a part of my motivation.
KP