50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Was hoping for at least 12 miles today, my day off, but only managed 7 in 74:34. The last day of stress of my wife's Mom (who has Alzheimers) and her Mom's issues made for a tough night last night. Hate to fuss, but not easy for the brain (mine) to deal with all the incoming info.

Have only one 11 miler so far, with a 1/2 marathon coming on Oct. 21. Still some time for a long run, but really feel the need for one this coming Sunday.

Congrats to all those running, and racing, well. And I guess my blessings include a great, stable-minded wife that is coping well. How lucky I really am.

Racerdb wrote:

F: 7.7 @ 7:11/mi. Good run before heading upNorth for the weekend. 746,741,735...then 639,631,6:09.67... then 1.73 @ 7:30 cooldown. Felt strong on the 6:09.

Dave, do you do this kind of amazing progression often? I don't know what your pace is on 5/10Ks but that's a smokin sixth mile.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

What is your friend’s name? There is a good chance I know him. I was in SMTC from 1972-1974, but knew a lot of the club members later on.

Jeff John. He is the developer/webmaster of the best local running site in the country, as far as I have seen. He, my wife, and I were all in the same running club here, a while back.

KCgeezer wrote:

Racerdb wrote:

F: 7.7 @ 7:11/mi. Good run before heading upNorth for the weekend. 746,741,735...then 639,631,6:09.67... then 1.73 @ 7:30 cooldown. Felt strong on the 6:09.

Dave, do you do this kind of amazing progression often? I don't know what your pace is on 5/10Ks but that's a smokin sixth mile.

It doesn't seem that amazing! But I am happy about getting into the low 6:00's after only 5 weeks of running... After four months off. Very encouraging.

And yes the progressive tempo has been my 'go to' workout for many years. Hopeful that my body will allow me to continue these!

Thanks for noticing,

Dave

I haven't been posting lately ... which seems fair since I've not been running either! But I am continuing to row boats and since I got a nice bit of news today I thought I'd share.

My club program, Boulder Community Rowing, submitted applications for three boats to race at the Head of the Charles next month, and all three were successful. Fun! I haven't raced this event -- I believe it's still the largest rowing regatta in the world -- in 23 years (or thereabouts). I did it four or five times back in the day.

I'm the youngster (51) in my 4-man crew with coxswain. We're in the 50-60 senior masters category -- we would be in the grand senior masters 60-70 if I could figure out how to put on a few years before the race.

A rare morning of very choppy conditions for today's on-water rowing at the Boulder Reservoir, doing 4 X 5 minutes with whitecaps occasionally breaking over the gunwales. Later in the day, after we got the news about the HOC boats, I was inspired enough to log an additional 30 minutes on the rowing ergometer, plus some weights.

Good to see that so many of you are still running consistently and well. Stay healthy!

Allen1959 wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

What is your friend’s name? There is a good chance I know him. I was in SMTC from 1972-1974, but knew a lot of the club members later on.

Jeff John. He is the developer/webmaster of the best local running site in the country, as far as I have seen. He, my wife, and I were all in the same running club here, a while back.

allen1959,

I recall the name but can’t remember if we met. Next time you see him ask him what years he ran for the club.

Igy

Racerdb wrote:

Ahhh… The up and down roller coaster days of heathy running for the Masters runner. It all used to come so easy!

Amen to that! And things were so much easier 30 or so years ago. This 58 yr old beat up, been running for 3+ decades body feels like it's 78. So much desire, motivation, enthusiasm to train consistently & hard, but yet the body says no...and you know who has the final say on matters like this. Lol.

It's funny...I was thinking back to my younger healthier years in my 20s when I belonged to a running club and a seasonal track workout club. The topic of conversation pre & post race/workouts were always about the latest methods of speedwork, tempo runs, hill repeats, etc, racing flats/spikes, and simply how to get faster. Now, some 35 yrs later I belong to a Grandmaster running club and the conversation with other middled-aged stiffs is invariably always about injury rehab/prevention, cross training, visits with sports med doctors, orthopedic surgeons, physical therapists, etc., what are the safer NSAIDs & pain meds to take, and basically how to maintain some level of running. Amazing how things change with a person's perspective on running as one ages.

☝️Who said age is only a number? I think the person who invented that saying didn't consider distance runner and age-related chronic injuries. ?

If you haven't made a serious attempt at a ketogenic diet, coupled with intermittent fasting, you haven't even begun to make a serious effort to stem the tide of systemic inflammation caused by long-term high-carb diet.

I train every day and wake up every morning without the soreness and stiffness I experienced even in my 20s and 30s. I am 7% body fat and the leanest/strongest pound-for-pound I've been in 20 years.

60+ wrote:

I am 7% body fat and the leanest/strongest pound-for-pound I've been in 20 years.

Leaving aside the questionable fad diet practices, is 7 percent body fat in an older person even healthy? Matt Fitzgerald in Racing Weight advises masters to go no lower than 8 pct men and 14 pct women. My chiropractor who does my bf measurements advised me to keep it above 10.

I’m not a fan of a high-carb diet (other than the taste ?) , but runners definitely need some carbs in their diet. Glycogen is an important fuel for anyone running at least at a decent pace.

-Racing Weight browsed , terms like appetite management and nutrient timing do not appeal to me. Also his material is dated. Bottom line a runnersworld special format with anecdotes and stats . I prefer to understand the underlying mechanisms which are pretty complex but fascinating . Hormones not calories you do the math. Books vs research again you do the math. The science community likes to filter dumb down studies for mass consumption how dare they. The best diagnostic person I ever met was a car mechanic.

-Keto and IF oh yea good stuff but with cheat days / weeks . Not to lose weight or run faster but feeling butter er better sleep energy mood satiated then after a while I carb the f up with a carb hangover the next day but really rip the workouts.

We are all long in the tooth on this thread. Seen fad diets come and go! I'm a fast master runner ( just ask me :)) at about 7% body fat and simply eat more than non runners. Tried high carb, low carb, fasting... None of these really hurt or helped.

Currently eating very little in the morning ( can of tuna and coffee with lots of dry milk) before my late morning runs. Usually a high carb meal at 3 pm and high protein dinner. I could probably change the order of the meals and it would have little impact. Not too exciting, just eat what you need as an individual and ignore all the noise for the most part.

60+ wrote:

If you haven't made a serious attempt at a ketogenic diet, coupled with intermittent fasting, you haven't even begun to make a serious effort to stem the tide of systemic inflammation caused by long-term high-carb diet.

I train every day and wake up every morning without the soreness and stiffness I experienced even in my 20s and 30s. I am 7% body fat and the leanest/strongest pound-for-pound I've been in 20 years.

I'm not talking about "stiffness & soreness," which should be normal for any middle-age runner training regularly, but more about serious, acute & chronic injury pathologies (e.g., ruptured tendons/ligaments/cartilage, degenerative tears, osteoarthritis, strained muscles, etc.).

I have severe OA and a completely ruptured posterior tibial tendon in one ankle, had a grade 2 Achilles strain on the other foot that's now chronic tendonosis, a grade 2 patellar tendon strain and a bad back (though from a MV accident). So, there isn't any diet, ketogenic or otherwise, that is going to regenerate damaged tendons, ligaments, cartilage, etc. (maybe some supplements like glucosamine can help with some preservation of the joints, but it doesn't reverse the damage). And all the studies I've seen show degenerative musculoskeletal changes start occurring at age 50 with most athletes. So add any trauma to the joints or tears to tendons/ligaments/cartilage and that makes matters even worse. Even the young bucks who have had surgery or have had major trauma to a joint, invariably go on to have OA in their older years - many needing joint replacements.

In fact, joint replacement surgery has skyrocketed in the last several years with the middle-age demographics. And these aren't all obese, overweight & lazy middle-agers. Many are physically active and some are even hardcore runners, but joint degeneration can get the best of us...we're considered the wear and tear generation. ?

Great Plains wrote:

I’m not a fan of a high-carb diet (other than the taste ?) , but runners definitely need some carbs in their diet. Glycogen is an important fuel for anyone running at least at a decent pace.

Aren't complex carbohydrates healthy? And high-fiber diets with lots of organic vegetables are suppose to be very healthy and cancer preventing for us old farts. In fact, the lastest ground breaking research shows that cancer cells proliferate from amino acids and not glucose, like originally thought.

BigMango wrote:

We are all long in the tooth on this thread. Seen fad diets come and go! I'm a fast master runner ( just ask me :)) at about 7% body fat and simply eat more than non runners. Tried high carb, low carb, fasting... None of these really hurt or helped.

Well, you are fast! You also have been at this longer than me.

My bf dropped to 11 earlier this year and I was worried I might be too low. Since then I’ve put on five pounds so until I drop those it’s a moot point.

Charlie, Matt’s books on nutrition are pretty good but I’ve seen him change with the science eg, full fat dairy is now rewarded in his diet quality scale, before it was penalized. Since I’m a plant based eater I also have to part ways with his insistence that you can’t do this without meat n dairy.

Well I'm kind of a B teamer on the JV squad for most aspects this discussion thread but here are some of my thoughts on the weight and nutrition discussion. Have hardly ever been called too heavy or too thin as an adult so actually don't have much to add there. The most important thing is to be healthy so we can take on the training that we do. What you eat does matter though. I've run better--mostly it's just less worse--over the past couple of years by making some diet shifts.

And for nutrition, as others have indicated, a well rounded diet with a proper balance of carbohydrates, fats, and protein seems to work best. But with carbs, they should be healthy carbs with fiber and all that. Easy on the sugars and snacks. For protein I do eat some meat but red meat only once in a while. Mostly fish, egg whites, and some poultry. I eat a lot of vegetables, salads, and two or three pieces of fresh fruit every day.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

There is a good chance I know him. I was in SMTC from 1972-1974, but knew a lot of the club members later on.

Igy, small world. You're a few years older than my friend; here is Jeff's recollection:

"I went to Palisades High School with (Igy). Great guy! He was one of the first of our runners to latch onto coach Igloi. (Igy) and a hardy group would rendezvous in the morning before school at Santa Monica College for killer workouts, then he'd work with us and the Pali team at the end of the day. (Igy) was a senior when I first entered HS and was our 2-Miler. He went on, I believe, to break the American record for 25K."

I love all these great diet ideas! Monday’s will be the South Beach Diet, Tuesday Paleo, Wednesday I’ll fast, Thursday is watch Dr. Patrick day and try Nutrigenomics only because she’s purdy, Friday is Vegan day, Saturday is Keto day, and Sunday is Zone day cause Brittney does it. I’m being facetious, of course, as surely not every diet can be right for every person. And just like the various training programs available, each of us is an experiment of one and each must find their own individual way. It’s easy to fall into the inductive reasoning trap where one falsely assumes that what works for them will work for everyone. I’m guilty.

Well...since I'm an old retired guy who runs a few miles per week, cross trains, lifts weights almost every day and is more physically active than most guys half my age, I'm on a Seefood diet - I see food and eat it! ?