50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

To jump in again, I do most of my training with a Garmin wrist HR monitor, which I believe 85-90% of the time. HR varies a lot based on time of day, temperature, fatigue level, and probably some other stuff that is difficult to quantify. I find that the pace of my most recent race result or quality training effort is a more consistent data point for figuring out current threshold pace than HR. For training at my age (68) I think that a couple of seconds slower than ideal threshold pace is almost always better than a couple of seconds too fast. Also, I tend to get plenty of faster than threshold work whenever I run with younger guys and girls (which is almost everybody these days :>)

old guy II wrote:

My older son was a biochem major with an emphasis on respiratory physiology, and a 3:55 1500, 9:10 steeple guy in college. ( I was a 51 second 440 guy in college, so what do I know about distance training?) We have had lots of training discussions about training for 5K and up. From my now close to 50 years of training experience and his 20+ years now, we both agree that volume and threshold work are the foundation and key to good distance fitness.

I can't hear this enough. I am just starting to threshold train after spending my first year and a half mostly building volume and doing speed work. Only now am I working threshold into my routine.

*Week 363*

Greetings, 50+ers! I'm always a bit somber thinking about Memorial Day. For all those that sacrificed their lives for a cause greater than themselves, it humbles me greatly. It also gives me gratitude, and having the pleasure of particpating on this thread with a fine group of seasoned runners is a part of that gratitude.

My week was so-so. Running was up a tad (21 miles), but I made a deliberate attempt to add more walking, plus my yard was completely out of control and required some serious (and knee-wrenching) maintenance. Log reads as such:

Sun: Off

Mon: 5.3 steady (8:11/mi)

Tue: 4.1 (7:43/mi avg) w/3rd mile in 6:23

Wed: Off

Thu: 4.6 (8:10/mi) last mile was miserable

Fri: Off

Sat: 7.0 Easy (8:44/mi avg)

Did additional walking on Sun & Tue-Fri for a total of about another 13 miles about 2/3rd's at 14-15 min/mi pace. The yard work on Thur and Fri was not great for the left knee but needed to be done. Between the end of the semester and the relentless rain that we'd had, the back yard had not received a proper mowing....it was bad. On the plus side, it gave me another few hours of Zone-2 heart rate. Sadly, I've still not shed any weight and am hovering right at 180 lbs; will finally own up that I need to address this in the kitchen. The days of eating what I want are long over. Sigh!

All this discussion regarding when we choose to race and when not, and thoughts of racing a "mile" on the track has me wanting to shed this weight more rapidly. I haven't legitimately raced in a year (the few races I've run have been for team efforts...I was better than nothing.) Knowing how far out of race shape I've gotten and how much above race weight I have become, I just can't justify putting money down. I just don't feel up to racing if I can't put forth a worthy effort.

I missed a good race last weekend, and will probably miss another good race this coming weekend, for reasons outlined above. I do have confidence that I'll be able to turn this ship around; will start by eschewing the empty calories.

OK, enough of my pity pot. Good to read so much solid training going on. Will look forward to reading your inspiring reports this week. Any races?

All the Best!

PS-Somewhere over the past seven years we've double counted a few weeks. Since we are on the precipice of the 7th anniversary of the thread, we should be on a year's worth of weeks (365). Where's Alan Bennett when you need him (hope you are doing well, good sir.)

LucKY2b,

I’m flying the flag to honor Memorial Day brothers and sisters.

I hear ya on the weight thing. It’s something I’m betting each of us could use less of. It’s all relative but I struggle to get down 6lbs. Or let’s just call it Masters Racing Weight that I had 10 years ago. And it’s definitely a poor food thingy.

Had a good couple of weeks aimed at longer workout stuff. I tend to forget the value of tempos, long runs, and weekly volume. Why is it so damn hard to reach 50mpw?

Bonus run last Tues... jumped into a group being coached by Alan & Julia Webb. A medley of sorts. 3flat 800, 1200 with on/off 200s 40/50, 600 in 2flat, 1200 with on/off 200s 38/48, 400 in 70flat, 300 in 52, 200 in 31. It killed me! But I realized I needed two things. A coach. A group. And I pledged to continue to show up on Tuesday’s with The Webb’s.

An Honorable Memorial Day to all y’all.

KP

very cool that you got some coaching from the Webb's. I thought of Alan the other night when seeing Grant Hill on TV talking about Warriors/Rockets game. My intuitive reaction is that it's incredible that both Alan Webb and Grant Hill went to South Lakes HS in virginia, but it's probably like those stats problems showing that it's not amazing to have at least two people with same birthday in a class of 25 or what not.

fun albeit humid week of training for me including:

M 1:50 double

Tu 50:00 incl. hill repeats

W 1:25

Th 2:15 double

F 1:30 with 2 X 15:00 (3:00 recovery) at half-marathon pace

Sa 1:05

Su 40:00 run/1:00 x-t

rolling hills 4-mile race coming up tomorrow for Memorial Day. I hope everyone is having a good holiday weekend,

Dave

Mon. 32 minute kayak and 32 minute mountain bike ride.

Tue. 1 hour 12 minute mountain bike ride in the dark.

Wed. 9 km hilly slow plod in 1 hour.

Thu. 24 km mountain bike ride inc Mt Ida climb 1 hour 30 minute. 33 minute kayak.

2 x 3.5 km walks into and from work.

Fri. 20 km railtrail ride, first section with my wife. 1 hour 4 minutes.

2.5 km slow shuffle 16 minutes.

Sat. 7.5 km hilly hike in the Alpine foothills wih my wife. 1 hour 45 minutes.

Sun. 3 km slow jog 19 minutes while watching club race.

Some gentle shuffling at ridiculously slow speeds proved trouble free.

I do miss Alan Bennett.

Service:13E40

Cross Training : Did lots of hiking hills with some running as I felt.

Diet: Intermittent fasting window . Seems like 19 hours is the minimum for me to see benefit with sleep. I had let the feed window grow to 8 hours with 16 fasting. My sleep suffered. So each week I added an hour to the fast time. Finally noticed a big difference at 19 hours. Food wise I eat pretty clean and it makes a difference. Nuts,Lean meat slow cooked in crock pot, fish,lots of Cruciferous vegetables , some fruit but no too much, probiotics and prebiotics, olive oil coconut oil bone broth flax seed weight 138

Took and easy week 27 minutes of running on 2 runs

20 x 1 minute with 1 minute walk for rest on treadmill at various combinations of elevation and speed finished with 12 mph at 1 percent for 40 seconds felt good maybe could have gone for 2:30.

7 minutes hard uphill and some downhill running guesstimate while hiking Amanda's Trail total hike 4 hours felt good.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1aDq8YsW8mf4belkh-Nj8qTdFOmkipQpp

M58 -- 5'11" 164 lbs

Goal -- Defend M55-59 title in 15K (August)

Training -- 9-day cycle with Long Run, VO2max and LT workouts

May 21 - 27, 2018

LR -- 19.1 miles @ 8:23/mi

Easy - 7.7 miles @ 7:51/mi

Easy - 5.8 miles w/1 x 400m & 1 x 1200m @ 1-mi race pace

LT -- 2.5-mi up; 2 x 2.5 miles w/2-min static rest @ 6:46/mi, 6:40/mi; 2.5-mi down

Off

VO2 -- 2.0-mi warmup; 6 x 2:35 hill w/3:30 jog recoveries; 1.5-mi cooldown

Easy - 7.7 miles @ 8:27/mi

WEEK TOTAL: 58.3 MILES

After last week's cutback with a mini-taper and 5K race, I got my mileage up again this week. I will cut back some this coming week to accommodate another 5K.

-Allen

Tue: 45 min rocky trail, 441 feet climbing

Thurs: 45 min rocky trail, 500 feet climbing

Sat: 38 min trail, 7:18 1600, “test” run

Sun: 45 min easy trail

It was a good week. My trail runs have averaged about 13 min pace so I’ve been concerned I have turned myself into a trail-sloth. So, in the middle of a trail-plod around the track Saturday (my home track has nice trails all around it), I attempted to run fast. Honestly, I did not expect to go faster than 8 min pace, so I was surprised to hit 7:18 without pressing it too hard.

I sure do wish I could get on the track and burn it up as some have noted here but I know I would not last long if I did that. I think it is important to urge an abundance of caution to anyone reading the thread, that some of the training advice espoused here may not apply to everyone. Not everyone is a speedster on the track and some people sprain their ankle tripping over a pencil, and hence, trails are not advisable.

CAUTION, side-effects may include instant injury! Results may vary!

Have a good week everyone.

a former 'jarhead' here checking back in after going MIA for a couple of weeks

this coming Thursday will make streak day 548 or exactly 1 1/2 years without a miss...have averaged a touch over 35 mikes per week for 78 consecutive weeks...the gimpy foot however has precluded sprinting and therefore racing...that being said, I scratched out a half dozen 100s yesterday and concluded the session with a sprint straight / run turns one mile in a not so earth shattering 7:18...watch out ?

have a fine weekend of training and racing...as always, 'train don't strain'

your pal,

MF

I used a little peer pressure yesterday, running with the local old fast guys group, to finally start to get back to some real training after several up and down weeks. I ended up at a respectable 34 miles for the week.

M- 7 walk with 100M stride every 1/2 mile

T- 4 easy 10:17/mi

W- rest

Th- 4 easy 9:35/mi

F- rest

S- 12 with 2w.u. at 8:10/mi, 4 x 1 mi with 1/2 mi recover at 6:51, 6:48, 6:50, 6:46, 4 mi w.d. at 8:00/mi

Su- 7 walk with 100M stride every 1/2 mile

No running this week as I tried to heal my calf. Actually I did try a bit of jogging on Friday but quit in less than 100 yards as the calf felt worse and worse. It’s no problem on the bike, and I put in 176 miles in five outdoor rides plus 3 hours on the stationary trainer. For the first time in many years I missed my local Memorial Day weekend 5K (where my age group was won with a time over 30 minutes!). At least my bad Achilles tendon is feeling a lot better after two weeks off from running.

Tomorrow (Memorial Day) I’m planning to do a 9-mile hike up in the Sierras. Reports are that the mosquitoes are fierce and there may be some deep stream crossings. I’m bringing lots of bug juice, a bug jacket that covers my whole head and upper body, and my Crocs for wading through streams. My calf isn’t causing any problems when walking fast on roads or going up or down stairs, so I don’t think that will be a problem for hiking on rugged terrain.

Rhype, I’m one of those people who can sprain an ankle tripping over a pencil. I really wish I could run trails but I’m just too clumsy. Hiking trails I can usually manage, but I do have to pay a lot of attention to the ground in front of me and things like crossing a stream by walking on a log, which others seem to find trivial, require my utmost concentration to avoid falling.

I guess I’ll take another week completely off from running and then test the calf again.

Best wishes to all.

Had a good week, and have shaken off most of the worst post-April marathon. A bit of residual soreness in my hip flexors but otherwise getting back to normal.

70 for the week, highlighted with an easy 5 (just under) with socal cush in Boulder.

Had a decent tempo on Tuesday (3.5 miles) and a very good 6X1000 on Friday morning followed by some quick 200s, both workouts hitting paces close to where I was in February before in big late winter races in FL and VA. Also getting in some higher elevations runs/hill climbs, including a steady effort at a whopping 9:45 pace at Mt. Evans the other day--climbed 2,400, starting at 10,600 over 10.5 miles. That was sort of tough and felt kind of crummy afterward.

Checking in from England where I've been teaching for the past two weeks. Have been off my regular training schedule due to travel to my son's college graduation, a serious bout of poison ivy, and an unresolved hip issue. I've been able to bike and swim (now that the poison ivy has healed) but I can't put two consecutive days of running together. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it's not my labrum. For now I'm backing off and taking some down time in hopes it resolves by itself. Congratulations on the 7th anniversary!

Rtype wrote:

I sure do wish I could get on the track and burn it up as some have noted here but I know I would not last long if I did that. I think it is important to urge an abundance of caution to anyone reading the thread, that some of the training advice espoused here may not apply to everyone. Not everyone is a speedster on the track and some people sprain their ankle tripping over a pencil, and hence, trails are not advisable.

+1

I get injured just shuffle stepping to the kitchen or tripping on the bedroom stairs. ? The way I see it is middle-agers have gone from participation-base running decades ago to more of a performance based where high mileage, copious amounts of speedwork and running fast times seems to be the name of the game for many.

However, there are some of us who have significant injury histories and are prone to injuries, and can't do high mileage, lots of speedwork, race regularly, etc., due to the limiting factors of our chronic injuries & disabilities. I, myself, at late 50s with OA can barely muster 15 mpw, maybe a mile or two of speedwork (if I'm lucky) and can't even break 25 for the 5k. And a 25 min 5k is laughable compared to some of the speed I've seen here with the cats my age (that's why I would never post my race times or training curriculum on this forum).

In fact, I noticed over the years in the masters club I belong to a pronounced separation of older cats in my age group who are getting faster every year while some of us experiencet he normal age-related injuries and decline in performance that comes with a high-impact activity like running. The common denominator I've noticed with the guys running fast times in our club is they seem to never get injured, therefore, they're able to due high-mileage and consistent training improving their race fitness and get faster.

It may the case of the anti-aging genetic "haves & have nots." ?

I hope you'll go ahead and post about your training and racing. everybody is faster and slower than someone else, and for the most part slower than we used to be. Unless we want a thread consisting solely of a couple of national/world champs it makes sense for us all to exchange info and experiences. We can all learn from one another

best wishes,

--Dave

[quote]Arthritic Old Runner wrote:

. And a 25 min 5k is laughable compared to some of the speed I've seen here with the cats my age (that's why I would never post my race times or training curriculum on this forum).

Arthritic Old Runner -- I will second the request that you go ahead and share your training and racing experiences. There is always something to be gleaned from what others are doing, whether they're "riding high," or "suffering through."

Yes, the key to racing well when older -- and the Number One challenge -- is being able to train consistently while avoiding injury. True at any age, of course, but ever more difficult.

During my recent two-year "comeback," I have hobbled through injury-tainted training for a total of nine months, and unable to train at all for three months. It's been frustrating, but thankfully, I don't seem to be plagued with major degenerative issues or other serious problems. And my training is in a pretty good place right now.

I took 13 years off from competing before deciding to train for a marathon at age 57. During that time off, I paid no attention to the local running scene. It's been interesting to see how many of my competitors from my early 40s are still competing. And, it's actually very few. Injuries? Burnout? Shifting priorities? I don't know.

In any case, the attrition has catapulted me from a mediocre M40-44 runner to being very competitive, even at age 58, in the 55-59 age group (locally). It's kinda fun, but I miss my old rivals.

It was a great day for Bolder Boulder. You could run this race for a decade and not get better conditions. I mostly held a steady 7:20ish pace, except for the killer 3rd mile, and finished in 45-high. Good for 20th in the 50 year old group. I turn 51 in two days and would have been top 15 in that bracket. For barely 4 days a week of training and no more than 25 MPW I can't complain about my result.

Uncannily, my 10 year old was 20th in his age group, and my wife 20th in hers. The 6 year old will have to wait until next year to run it.

Beers and brunch with some friends afterwards, then watched the elites zip through the neighborhood.

Gratitude for all the servicemen and servicewomen out there, and for those before them. Stay healthy!

Congratulations to you and yours. Those 20th, 20th, 20th finishing places ate a funny coincidence!