50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Hey CM nice race a few months older and you could have taken a nap and won OUCH am I vicious or wat. AGwise you took some big scalps.

Base:3 to 4 hours per day hiking hills sand some easy some barefoot

How to read

Running: total time in minutes with the goal of 2 x 40 minutes every 8 days or about 10mpw

The 40 minute break down: @Lt 75 percent and > LT 25 percent.

The harder than LT is done is segments with recovery at Lt. Noted in ( ). Misc

Week 1 42 minutes 32/10

Oct 16 21 minutes 16/5 (2,2,1) Rolling trail

Oct 20 21 minutes 16/5 (2,3) Med hill hard down

Week 2 56 minutes 36/20

Oct 24 28 minutes 18/10(8,2) Steep hill hard up

Oct 28 28 minutes 18/10(4,2,4) Rolling trail

Been ramping up aerobic tank to enable this old fool to toe the line in Lexington for my first Club Nats XC since frozen Spokane 2008! Doing ladder up and down 60min fartleks, longer tempo runs, and zero speed-work. Very pleased (and sore) with my first 10k in ages yesterday on a 2-loop-twisty-but-perfect-weather golf cart path. 38:47 was a delight for this here M57 guy.

Hope all y'all are faring as well or better and that we hoist a few IPAs together December 9th.

KP

47 years ago today I started my very first training log...I look back at that first one and it totally cracks me up

108,160 miles later and I still log every single training run...provides great reference points particularly when I'm competing.

According to this week's training log, I ran a hefty ( for me nowadays) 47 miles...buoyed no doubt by last Sunday's half marathon...33 of the 47 were done on the local high school track. You might think that's weird, but in fact it is the least stressful on my devastated feet...oh, and I actually kinda dig it and look at every 200 split en route ...OK, so that final part really IS weird ;)

Off to go jogging with my bride and pooch in the beautiful fall colors of the adjacent vineyards here in Sonoma County... THE best time of the year to be a runner...even a very very slow one.

Train don't strain.

Your pal,

MF

Great racing old guy II and Coyote Montane. An odd training week for me with a vacation from work. We drove up to Sun Valley for a couple of days. Upon return I spent Thursday through Saturday preparing the yard and home exterior for winter. I had some help on Friday with a tree and shrub trimmer we hired. Full days of 6-8 hours did not leave time or energy for running. Nice to have it completed and free up time until spring.

Igy

Cliffhanger 8 km yesterday, I ran 43:13 for 6th in the 65-69 age group, and that was an improvement from my last race two weeks ago, when I ran 28:01 for a long 5 km, 5th place was 90 seconds in front of me for the last points for our Grand Prix series, but I am getting faster (not fast enough, but you all know how that goes).

My wife, on very minimal run/walking, ran 39:29 for 2nd 60 year old. Very pleased for her, given her "training". It was 30 degrees then, too.

lucKY2b, “Academic Leadership Academy” sounds like my idea of a couple of days in hell, speaking as someone who never sought an academic leadership position but was sucked into it by a leadership vacuum. Good with keeping up on the running despite the distractions of the rest of life.

Nice races, old guy II, Coyote, and KP!

A rather sorry week for me. I was having a lot of trouble with my heel and ended up running only 2 days for just over 20 miles total. I replaced the weekend long run with a long hike with husband and dog, which is also hard on my heel, but at least different.

Monday: 90 minutes on bike trainer.

Tuesday: 10.5 miles at 8:57/mile pace.

Weds: 90 minutes on bike trainer.

Thurs: 10.3 miles at 9:11 pace. This included a brief stop to let a skunk saunter across the road ahead of me in the pitch dark, a second brief stop to discourage an aggressive dog, and about 1 km very slowly down a very, very dark bike path on a moonless pre-morning, which required great concentration to see where I was going.

Fri: 90 minutes on bike trainer.

Sat: 12.5 mile hike at 7000-8000 feet with 2400 feet of elevation gain and loss. We are having lovely September weather here in late October and figured we’d take advantage of what will surely be the last nice day to hike in the Sierras until next May or June. The conditions were perfect, including NO MOSQUITOES!! My heel was mildly sore at the start and quite a lot more sore by the end, and I don’t know whether this was ultimately better or worse for it than running a comparable distance on flat paved roads, which would have taken less than one-third as much total time at a much higher and more sustained effort.

Sun: 40 miles on bike in delightful weather. Felt great, with no soreness anywhere except a touch in my heel, and none of the general systemic fatigue I often feel after long hikes.

I’m supposed to run a half-marathon in seven days. I'll play it by ear this week, depending on how my heel feels. I may go into the race with almost no running for ten days. That would be interesting.

Happy trails to all!

A really tough week for me. My son was hospitalized with an acute illness and I traveled a few states over to be with him until he got over the worst of it. Luckily he bounced back. Youth was on his side. But very little training and lots of stress for me.

Tomorrow will start another week and I hope to get back on track.

Congrats OGII, KP and Coyote! Sorry to hear about your son Phoenix, best wishes.

M=19 min, Tu=Rest, W=20 min, Th=20min, F=Rest, Sa=20 min, Su=20 min mtn trail

My right heel improved noticeably this week. I decided to stick at 20 min until next W when I’ll add more minutes. Today enjoyed traveling up to 4000 feet to try to catch some snow here in SW Va. It was only misty and 33 with a 30 mph fresh breeze. But enjoyable none-the-less.

Have a good week folks.

Coyote Montane wrote:

Cut back week of 43 miles this week in prep for the USATF 15K. It was cold (32 at the start) and blustery. The course is fairly hilly. Met my goals for this race and maybe then some. Ran sub 6 minute mile pace, got top 3 in age group, and scored a high overall age grade ranking.

Outstanding! Especially as you are at the upper end of M55-59.

I am curious about the overall experience. Was there much of an opportunity to socialize with fellow competitors -- gather at a local brew pub, share old war stories, etc? Were there formal award presentations, with a chance to meet and congratulate peers and top runners? Or did folks essentially just run the race and disperse?

A couple of my races this year were disappointing in regards to the social aspect. No recognition for age-group competitors, so no way of knowing who you had raced against, no incentive to stick around after the race, no chance to chat about the race or training or anything with runners of similar age and ability. And definitely not enough beer.

I think it would be a letdown to do significant traveling only to warm up, run the race, and head home. Even with a great performance. Maybe ESPECIALLY with a great performance.

I'm weighing time and financial commitments versus potential enjoyment, etc. of getting more serious as I close in on age 60. Assuming I can get healthy again. The option of joining a competitive club would presumably provide social opportunities, but there are none close to home.

Setting goals, planning and executing training, etc are enjoyable. But I'm not sure if that's enough.

Thanks Allen.

They treat the masters quite well at these events and there is good social time too. The night before the race, they held a masters competitor's technical meeting including dinner at no extra charge, so that was well attended. The discussion was to the point and over in 15 minutes. A lot of the competitors are regulars at these things so there is a lot banter between and among tables.

We had our own masters tent before the race and had 10 minute head start on the pro/citizens race. You could tell who your competition was because we had color-coded back bibs for each age group. Afterward they held a USATF awards ceremony and that was pretty well attended--despite being 40 degrees and breezy--and they showered us with medals and bling.

I hung out with one of the masters teams for the weekend. The social aspect is a good part of the fun. Club running is the way to go.

Coyote Montane wrote:

I hung out with one of the masters teams for the weekend. The social aspect is a good part of the fun. Club running is the way to go.

Thanks for the info. Your description sounds exactly like what I would hope for. As far as clubs, one possibility in this part of the world is Genesee Valley Harriers. They usually assemble some pretty competitive masters teams. My recent races would solidly qualify for their 50-59 "B team." We'll see how things are when I'm 60.

This was Week 4 of no running, no biking. I had one session with a physical therapist, and have started a strength/stretching routine. It takes WAY longer than I had anticipated, and next week will include additional exercises.

old guy II -- nearly 68, and racing at that level! Incredible!

mo'pak -- another enviable week. I stashed our kayaks back in the barn yesterday. Snow and ice are not far off.

Charlie -- I will have to review your training stuff when I am not so sleepy ...

KP -- that is a fine 10K ... wishing Lexington could be on my schedule ... sure looks like you will be ready to rock 'n' roll in December!

MikeF -- I trust you enjoyed today's run with your bride. My bride lived in your part of the world for many years, and would love to move back ... although friends' recent facebook photos may have dampened that desire (wildfire devastation)

Mike L. -- you're BACK! Congrats, and to your wife, too

amkelley -- whether you do much running or not this week, you are definitely aerobically fit. Best wishes in the HM!

Phoenix -- sorry to hear about the scare with your son. Hope his recovery is soon complete

Rtype -- good to see the continued progress with your heal

Have a great week!

-Allen

Coyote Montane wrote:

.... for the USATF 15K. The course is fairly hilly.

CM: Thats quite the understatement. From my 2015 log "Easily one of the more challenging courses I've ever raced on. It was a roller coaster of hills the entire way. Big hills 2nd mile, 5th mile & 9th mile. Rolling in between..."

Real nice run on a challenging course!

I kind of had a reboot with my training 3 weeks ago. Every run was drag, the achilles was really hurting, and it just wasn't any fun. Took a few days off then just ran very short and easy. Eased back into it and had two better 50+ weeks. I've started seeing my chiro 2x week, we got me some custom orthotics made, I've been diligent with the post run stretching/wobble board/heel dips, run much more on grass, and I turned the distance and pace off on my Garmin. I'm able to see it post run and I've made a little game out of guessing my pace after each run. I've nailed it a few times!

Looks like we have a sorta-kinda mostly healthy seven man team for Lexington. Pretty much the same team we've had for the past two years except we picked up a pretty good former overall Club XC champ from a few years back. Not sure of his fitness these days though.

Lastly with all the talk about the time span between sub 3:00 hr marathons, I started thinking about my span between first and last 5:00 miles. Looks like my first was a 4:51 in April of 1976 a month before I turned 16. My last was a 4:57.61 mile Garmin split (5:01 official) from the Flint mile in August at 57 years 3 months. So that makes it 41 years and 4 months between first and last 5:00 minute miles. I'll lay claim to the world record until someone else can beat it! ;>) all in fun...

Thats it from here. My new motto is 'Going down swingin'...

Dave

WOW Dave, 41 years between sun 5:00s is utterly amazing...SoCal Cush how about you?

I had 34 years span...1972 first sub 5:00...2006 final sub 5...now relegated to dreaming about another sub 6:00

MF

MikeF wrote:

According to this week's training log, I ran a hefty ( for me nowadays) 47 miles...buoyed no doubt by last Sunday's half marathon...33 of the 47 were done on the local high school track. You might think that's weird, but in fact it is the least stressful on my devastated feet...oh, and I actually kinda dig it and look at every 200 split en route ...OK, so that final part really IS weird ;)

Whenever I run on track, I usually check my split every 200m. This is the case whether I am doing any speed work, or simply doing an easy run. But maybe that proves I am really weird. ;)

Here is my week.

M: 4 miles.

T: 7 miles.

W: 12 miles. (8th-11th miles @ 7:53-7:47-7:41-7:35)

R: 4 miles / 7 miles.

F: 9 miles.

SA: 7 miles.

SU: 20 miles.

My work schedule did not allow me to do a double on Tuesday. So I moved my Tuesday morning run to Monday evening. That wiped out my swimming session. Then, after my Wednesday progression run, I felt unusual soreness on my right calf. I did icing, heating, foam rolling and electric stimulation, and wrapped my calf with a KT tape for the next 3 days. I also run very slowly (30sec-1min /mile slower than normal) on those days.

I wasn't sure how I should run my 20 miler on Sunday. But after my calf feeling normal for the first 15 miles of easy pace, I decided to pick up the pace for the last 5 miles as originally planned. It went 8:03-7:57-7:54-7:54-7:46. Maybe I was a bit too cautious at the beginning, but it's better to be safe than sorry.

MikeF wrote:

WOW Dave, 41 years between sun 5:00s is utterly amazing...SoCal Cush how about you?

I had 34 years span...1972 first sub 5:00...2006 final sub 5...now relegated to dreaming about another sub 6:00

MF

first sub-5 in 1982 (at age 14), most recent 2017 (at age 50), so i've still got a ways to go to catch dave, or steve spence--dave, do you have a streak of uninterrupted years of sub-5, or are we just talking about the impressive gap between first and most recent?

late to the game with the 15k race report (spent most of sunday shaking off the cobwebs from saturday night)--i finally figured out who coyote is--and as he posted, we enjoyed some blustery weather. i wish i could use it as an excuse for a slightly sub-par race, but i don't recall it affecting me much, other than maybe the wind on a short stretch right at the 10k mark as we made our way over the arkansas river.

if you want some comparative data:

2015/2016/2017 times:

john gardiner: 50:53/50:01/50:03

david angel: NA/50:58/50:25

cush: 51:31/NA/52:50

nat larson: 53:36/54:09/52:20

2016 was pretty warm, over 80 maybe when it finished, which wiped out some people (i was spectating, hampered by my achilles injury). however, the incredible nat larson, who is on quite a tear right now, and whom i beat by 2 minutes in 2015, is defying odds--while i got 79 seconds slower over 2 years, he got 76 seconds faster to crush me even though he's 5 years my elder. pretty damn inspiring for a 55 year old dude, whom i was lucky to barely outkick in the flint mile a couple months ago; he was clearly the stronger runner here, spoiling my racing debut as a 50 year old by also pacing his 50-54 y/o teammate kent lemme past me with about two miles to go. i've clearly got my work cut out for me before lexington.

to add to replies about socializing at these races: i'm lucky to have some great teammates to travel with as well as my wife, who was 3rd in the women's 50s age group. dinner before was friendly and fun, catching up on training aches and pains, and plenty of fun trash talking during awards (mixed in with free miller ultras), before we sampled the good stuff at prairie artisan brewery and other local pubs/bars, all within walking distance. lest you think calcoast is exclusive in our partying, we've always welcomed and/or adopted any willing participants; minnesota masters female melssa gacek (2nd overall to a 50yo!) usually hangs with us, i usually enjoy at least one shot of jack daniels with david angel (3rd overall out of blue ridge VA) as the night progresses, the dreadlocked jason ryf of oshksoh, WI had lunch at prairie with us and made it to at least one pub afterwards, and relatively new masters runner matt schmidt, also of minnesota, hung with us into the wee hours to get a full taste of the shenanigans and s#!+ talking that goes on as the night gets long and the stories get longer...

even with a slightly disappointing race result, i'm happy with my effort and progress, and had more fun than you'd think possible in downtown tulsa, enough that i look forward to hopefully going back next year for the fourth year in a row.

that's my story and i'm sticking to it,

cush

Racerdb thanks. Hope to meet you and others here, like our intrepid thread patron lucky2b, in Lexington. Great that you got a team. You guys will be tough. Ours fell apart this month (couldn't even field a 40+ team of 5) so I'm going solo and then switching to BRR 60+ next year--I'll be one of the freakin' old guys and we'll be a regular comedy troop. Great span for sub 5. I can only do it with a David Torrence downhill, but might see if I could get under 5:10 or 5:06 next year on a track or legit course.

cush, nice report--you still ran really well and your wife too. Larson is a phenom, he looks like he's 42, or maybe 37 and appears all legs and lungs. You got the wheels and will be back strong in the future. Yeah they kept dumping those lite beers on us! We had our pockets stuffed and were handing them out. Went to our hotel grill and enjoyed lunch and some craft beers before our flight out, so no late nighters.

I haven't ran much this month after coming down with a head cold the first of the month. Only 83 miles and most of it a mix of running and walking. I can't even think about racing but the road trip sounds like a great time. Good luck to everyone racing XC this fall.

Congrats to those who delivered all the great results over the last couple of weeks. It’s been tough being injured and on the sidelines.

Week 3 of PT for Achilles tendinitis. My PT has worked on me in the past and is the best guy with the company that’s the largest around. He was recommended years ago by my friend who is the medical director/rehab doc of the company. He has me running through it to the extent I can tolerate it — doesn’t believe in shutting it down completely. My wife didn’t believe me when I told her he said I could run!

He told me it’s going to take a while since “there’s a lot going on there”. There’s been some progress but slow, just like my running. Thankfully still cross training like a fiend with lots of swimming, cycling and core to supplement my 3 runs a week. My co-workers love seeing my bare foot getting e-stim during the day.

I’m traveling to see clients in a week and a half and signed up months ago for a half marathon there with a buddy. Still haven’t ruled out a “fun”run that might turn into a scenic walk.

The final week before my half-marathon on Sunday isn't looking as bad as I had feared. I ran 10.5 miles on Tuesday and 10.7 miles today, both at about 9 min/mile pace, feeling quite comfortable and with my heel feeling quite good. I am now going to take the next two days completely off from running, which I have never done before a race, and go see what I can do on Sunday. Better rusty than even more injured!