50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

I've been enjoying the peace of the holiday season, both at home and on the thread. Happiest of holidays to all 50+ posters here. Sorry to be late for at least one. :(

Ankle/foot is improving. Still trying to play it smart and will likely stay on the sidelines awhile longer. Meanwhile I enjoy reading the training reports posted here from our 50+ runners. Keep them coming.

Hope everyone had a great Christmas day!

I had a real nice week here. 75 miles including a steady 13 at 7:02 yesterday and 10 Tues in the rain at 6:45. Everything else was split between relaxed un-timed runs and steady 7:00 runs.

Only need 33 miles this week to hit my 3000 miles. It was a bit of a challenge the past few weeks going from a couple of zero's in October to back to 70 now. Just personal satisfaction of doing it!

Running: Grateful for every running step I took this year!

Non: Just about everything else in my world...

All the Best,

Dave

Good morning everyone, hope you all had a nice Christmas! Racerdb, congratulations on hitting 3,000 miles for the year, good for you! I had a good week of training as I hit 85 miles this week. By the middle of the week my left hamstring that cramped on a long run last week felt fine and I had a really good 18 miler Saturday with some Squire Surges and good tempo running the last half of run. At 7 miles i hit a hole with my right foot and went down like I was shot! I landed on my left shoulder, hip, and knee and rolled a couple of times! I was able to walk it off and was fine the rest of the run, I was a little sore though when I woke up yesterday morning!Have a great week of training all, Happy New year!Dick :-)

Racerdb wrote:

Hope everyone had a great Christmas day!

I had a real nice week here. 75 miles including a steady 13 at 7:02 yesterday and 10 Tues in the rain at 6:45. Everything else was split between relaxed un-timed runs and steady 7:00 runs.

Only need 33 miles this week to hit my 3000 miles. It was a bit of a challenge the past few weeks going from a couple of zero's in October to back to 70 now. Just personal satisfaction of doing it!

Running: Grateful for every running step I took this year!

Non: Just about everything else in my world...

All the Best,

Dave

Racerdb wrote:

Hope everyone had a great Christmas day!

I had a real nice week here. 75 miles including a steady 13 at 7:02 yesterday and 10 Tues in the rain at 6:45. Everything else was split between relaxed un-timed runs and steady 7:00 runs.

Only need 33 miles this week to hit my 3000 miles. It was a bit of a challenge the past few weeks going from a couple of zero's in October to back to 70 now. Just personal satisfaction of doing it!

Running: Grateful for every running step I took this year!

Non: Just about everything else in my world...

All the Best,

Dave

75 WOW!! I'd love to still have the body that would cope with that. I hit 6000kms each year from 1980 through 1984. I doubt I've run 3000 miles over the last 2 years.

What sort of O/50s times have you run? (I apoogise for my ignorance as I am sure you are a top masters runner in the States)Also what sort of times were yo running back in your younger days?

I too would like to lose 10lbs/4.5kgs,that would bring me back to my racing weight in my late 20s through to early 40s. I suspect the kyakking and also muscling a mountain bike up rocky climbs might make it too hard to achieve. Perhaps 2-3kg of body fat will be sufficient.

Grateful that my wife has finaly finshed her uni. degree.

Also that my youngest completed her VCE with a solid result that should get her into a good health science course at a good uni.

Running wise, it's just such a delight to get out and run (and ride)through the Aussie bush. My typical run has me among numerous kangaroos, wallabies, various wonderful birds, echidnas, various reptiles, old historic mining ruins, fascinating flora and geology. Many runners have to run among smog, cars, crowds of people among concrete with no connection to nature. I try to always remember how lucky I am to be doing this stuff.

mo'pak wrote:

75 WOW!! I'd love to still have the body that would cope with that. I hit 6000kms each year from 1980 through 1984. I doubt I've run 3000 miles over the last 2 years.

What sort of O/50s times have you run? (I apoogise for my ignorance as I am sure you are a top masters runner in the States)Also what sort of times were yo running back in your younger days?

altoroad wrote:

mo'pak wrote:

75 WOW!! I'd love to still have the body that would cope with that. I hit 6000kms each year from 1980 through 1984. I doubt I've run 3000 miles over the last 2 years.

What sort of O/50s times have you run? (I apoogise for my ignorance as I am sure you are a top masters runner in the States)Also what sort of times were yo running back in your younger days?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Beardsley

I was going to wait an let racerdb answer for himself, but altoroad started in the wrong direction. Altoroad, I think you got confused on who mo'pak was referring to. We're all pretty familiar with Dick B's career, but the question was about racerdb. I will confirm that racerdb is one fast dude and is among the best in the 50+ range here in the states.

I know it's a day or two premature, but congrats, Dave, on hitting that 3000 mile mark for yet another year. Your consistency must be a very important component to your success.

lucKY2b wrote:

I was going to wait an let racerdb answer for himself, but altoroad started in the wrong direction. Altoroad, I think you got confused on who mo'pak was referring to. We're all pretty familiar with Dick B's career, but the question was about racerdb. I will confirm that racerdb is one fast dude and is among the best in the 50+ range here in the states.

I believe I did get confused.

Hi everyone, I get questions all the time about my artificial knees and what they are made of. I've been telling everyone titanium, but they are actually made of polished cobalt-chrome with a very good wearing type of polyethylene that the metal slides on. Sorry for any confusion!

Dick :-)

Hello all, was away out of town for Xmas, visiting family over in Kamloops, B.C.

23rd., no run, travelling by greyhound.

Christmas Eve:(In Juniper Ridge, Kamloops) For 28:35 min., slow, favouring foot on some steepish downgrades.

Christmas Day: Short burn, made it a quick pace returnning, 16:38.

Boxing Day: For 22:38 min., slowly, increased pace, good clip to finish.

27th., no run travelling back.

28th. No run.

29th. (today) (Home ground) for 33:22 min., steady pace, pushed a few short hills, quick turnover pace to finish (last 200 m).

All the best for everyone for this 2012!

THOUGHT I WOULD POST A SIMPLE QUESTION. ASKING OF THE 50+ CROWD, HOPING TO ELIMINATE A LOT OF TROLLING.

Anyway, the question has to do with abandoning a long run, but instead running a high number of 800 repeats. To be more specific, I recently abandoned a planned 16 mile long run which would have been at marathon pace and replaced it with a 2 mile warm up, with 16 X 800 at 10k pace with a 2 mile cool down, total mileage of 12.

I know these two runs stress different systems, but overall, would either be better or is the 16 X 800 at a faster pace equivilent to a longer run at a slower pace?

scottdye wrote:

THOUGHT I WOULD POST A SIMPLE QUESTION. ASKING OF THE 50+ CROWD, HOPING TO ELIMINATE A LOT OF TROLLING.

Anyway, the question has to do with abandoning a long run, but instead running a high number of 800 repeats. To be more specific, I recently abandoned a planned 16 mile long run which would have been at marathon pace and replaced it with a 2 mile warm up, with 16 X 800 at 10k pace with a 2 mile cool down, total mileage of 12.

I know these two runs stress different systems, but overall, would either be better or is the 16 X 800 at a faster pace equivilent to a longer run at a slower pace?

You may have more responses in the general training forum as the question you pose is complex. Although there are trolls there are some sharp cookies out there too. To wit I point you to one of the deepest threads on the subject. It’s a challenging read and, at times, it seems like you need a PhD in cellular biology to understand it.

You will need to draw your own conclusions.

scottdye wrote:

THOUGHT I WOULD POST A SIMPLE QUESTION. ASKING OF THE 50+ CROWD, HOPING TO ELIMINATE A LOT OF TROLLING.

Anyway, the question has to do with abandoning a long run, but instead running a high number of 800 repeats. To be more specific, I recently abandoned a planned 16 mile long run which would have been at marathon pace and replaced it with a 2 mile warm up, with 16 X 800 at 10k pace with a 2 mile cool down, total mileage of 12.

I know these two runs stress different systems, but overall, would either be better or is the 16 X 800 at a faster pace equivilent to a longer run at a slower pace?

2 pretty different sessions and I don't see the 800s being "equivalent" to a long steady session.

The 800 session is about 45-50mins (at my level) of running at about 110% of marathon pace broken into 3 min chunks with rests between. Adding in 15mins (80% mar.pace?)easy before and after. Compared to running 110mins at 100% of marathon pace for the 16 miler.

One session is very specific to the demands of the marathon, the other is quite non specific. Doesn't mean that the 800s isn't a valuable session but it is not an equivalent session.

I don't claim to be smart enough to accurately differentiate between those two training sessions. What I can say is that from personal experience I just love workouts like your repeat 800 session. The physiological differences I shall leave to the more educated, but an 800s workout leaves me feeling confident and upbeat. Don't underestimate the psychological component of a workout like that.

As for the trolling, I think we're passed that (fingers crossed).

Dec. 30th. no run.

Dec. 31st. for 33:37 min., neighbourhood run, comfortable training pace, hard to finish..AHR 141 MHR 155.

scottdye wrote:

Anyway, the question has to do with abandoning a long run, but instead running a high number of 800 repeats. To be more specific, I recently abandoned a planned 16 mile long run which would have been at marathon pace and replaced it with a 2 mile warm up, with 16 X 800 at 10k pace with a 2 mile cool down, total mileage of 12.

I know these two runs stress different systems, but overall, would either be better or is the 16 X 800 at a faster pace equivilent to a longer run at a slower pace?

Hey scott, sorry I didn't respond to this question sooner. Certainly I'm no training guru, so take this for what it's worth. I think Rtype and mo'pak, though, are both on the right track, that these are not the same workouts. For sure there is significant overlap, as all running has some benefit to each of the systems, but different types of workouts have maximum benefit for different desired results. If you're wanting to be a better 10k (or below) runner, then I would put more emphasis on the intervals. If you're interested in races longer than 1/2-marathon, then the long runs have their value (in my opinion). You'll find some well-regarded posters on these boards (malmo immediately comes to mind), however, that would say that the long run is overrated, and I can respect that, even if I don't fully agree. For me, I know that I've run my best when I've incorporated all modalities into my training. There is also something cathartic about being out on the roads (or wherever you like to get in your miles) for a solid 2+ hours. Unfortunately, I haven't been there in awhile.

But truth be told, both of those workouts sound *really* hard to me. I probably wouldn't do 16 miles at marathon pace as a regular workout (usually my long runs are at marathon pace+30s/mi or slower.) I think I've done it that fast only once in my life, which was about a month out from an actual marathon race as a tune-up. And I don't think that I could even complete 16x800m at 10k pace (10x800m w/400m jog recovery is about my limit), even when I was at my best (sub-36 10k shape), back 1-1/2 years ago.

Not sure how much that helps.

mon- kyak and mountan bike ride.

tue- 16km run on rail trail,79m last km in 4.10.

wed- kyak and mountain bike ride.

thu- weights and 13km run.

fri- kyak and mountain bike ride.

sat- 25km mtn bike ride inc long climb. 8km tempo run 34m hot conditions about 95+ farenheit.

sun - 3h45m kyak session, hot conditions about 102 farenheit, went out later for an hour spin and stopped in at the golf course for a 20 min barefoot trot.

The kyak session today didn't go to plan. I intended to head up the river to a bridge and then run back to the car.

Unfortunately last summer's floods had left huge sandbars, more like sand dunes and also lots of fallen trees. Ended up having to turn back making for a long hot session of paddling.

Summer is well and truly here now, next few days are expected to reach 40 plus celsius (about 104f I think.)

Decent week of running in upstate SC. Not used to all the rolling hills but managed most runs in the 7-oh range. Mon & Sat were travel days so I took them off. Supposed to get blasted with high winds and 8-14" of snow tomorrow here in Northern IN. I don't run inside so I'll just do what I can do...

Can't really contribute much to 16x800 question. I just don't like running that many reps on a track! I kind of have a basic rule of 10 reps or 3 miles... But I agree with lucKY2b; Either workout would be a pretty hard one for me. I think I would give a slight edge to the 16 at MP as being a little more difficult.

Have a good week...

Dave

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Week 32

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Happy New Year 50+er's. May the year bring you peace, prosperity, joy,.....and maybe a few good races, too. :-)

Didn't have the week I'd hoped for training-wise. Managed 45 or so miles on 6 days of running. Had wanted to get in another 50 mile week, but I took Christmas day off (semi-intentionally), Tuesday was a cold-rainy day, and I seemed to have picked up a low-grade cold that stunted my training sessions. Oh well. Daily mileages were:

S: 0

M: 8.4 @7:15 pace

T: 4 easy

W: 8 w/5x hill repeats (quit after 5, my cold sapped me)

R: 8.1 easy

F: 10.6 easy

S: 6.3 Fartlek (w/7x 1:30 to 2:30 pickups). Total time 43:06 (6:50 average pace)

I see there is a thread on running sub-5-minute mile at age 50 for those interested:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4379421

Makes me wish that USATF would reinstate the mile run and make it a glamour event as it was in the old days. There is a certain mystique to it, and I believe it would raise the profile of middle-distance running here in the states. Concordantly, there's some nice senior masters results coming out of the Boston area.

While it's heating up down-under, we are due for our first bout of wintry weather here in the Bluegrass. Will try to get back over 50 this coming week, and develop a solid base for the month for January....weather permitting.

Hope you all are running well and that any of you travelers do so safely over this Holiday season.

Cheers.