50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

I probably forgot to mention weight in my discussion because it is no fun to constantly ration your food and beverage intake. I weigh 130lbs, which is the weight I raced at in college. I think some of my longevity in the sport is due to not carrying extra weight on my joints (not to mention the usual fortuitous picking the right parents). However, staying at your best racing weight is just a grinding, relentless battle to pay attention to what you eat and drink ( I do enjoy the modest quantities of beer and wine I consume), and to push away from the table when you should. My diet now is significantly healthier than my diet of 20 years ago. As my metabolism steadily slows down I continuously have tried to find healthier, and at least somewhat satisfying food choices, e.g. fresh fruit rather than ice cream for dessert.

Younger,

Good point. That sounds like Gallow Walking (Jeff Galloway), or Scout Pace. You walk 16 paces and jog 16 paces, for example. Right?

On the weight I need to get serious. I am a little over six feet tall and can carry it well, but boy do I feel it on the hills and hard intervals.

Igy

Maybe more like some of Dellinger's suggestions for "new" runners. Start out by counting steps but as you get a bit more fit go by time. Like progressing from 3 min 1 min walk, to 2 min and 2 min, and then 1 walk 3 run, etc. Pick a nice park with soft surfaces for those runs as you are getting started and emulate Ed Whitlock. Just run around your designated loop until you're done.

Maybe mix in some hike-runs. Power hike the steeper sections, and jog the flatter stretches for an hour or so, and walk back down.

Younger,

Will do, I will start next week.

Igy

Hello Igy. This is probably TMI but at least more food for thought:

I’m “only” 57 but I’m using some elements of a certain 85 year old’s methodology to train currently because I’ve had a very long series of injuries knocking me out for up to a year at a time. I’m speaking of the great Ed Whitlock. I think he’s up to about 50 or so age group world records now. Everyone focus’ on his famous 3 hour slow runs in the cemetery but neglect the fact that he’s taken up to a year off with injuries and keeps coming back again and again. He graciously shares his training on LR so here is the link to what I think is his real super power:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3200366&page=3

That’s starting at just 10 min a day of easy running and add a minute a day. I tried this in 2014 and found I was not durable enough to do this every day. As soon as I abandoned it I got injured. He races frequently for speed work. I had to modify this because, duh, I am not world class and never will be. Starting in Jan of this year (all documented in this thread) I started at 10 min, jogging 5 days a week. Thus adding 5 min a week. I also cannot handle pavement every day so I mix in trails. I firmly believe in 2 rest days a week…this after injuring myself with 422 days in a row of a streak. Just last week I tested myself to see how slow I got and was surprised to go 6:52, and 6:49 1600’s with almost no speedwork. Once a week I had been doing something hard, either on the trails or a progression. My opinion is you really only need one hard/fast/speed/race day a week at our ages.

But as is so often said here, each of us is an experiment of one.

If I were to answer your question when I just turned 50 it would have been wildly different. Then, my max distance was 18 miles a week, 5 days a week. Nothing was slow and I averaged close to and sometimes under 7 min per mile each week. I did hills on Tuesday’s and 400’s and mile repeats on Saturdays. Sundays were the lone longer run. My 5K PR then was 18:47 and 5:30 for the mile. I was, embarrassing to admit now, a bit of a jerk that thought I knew everything. I would have insisted that low mileage high intensity training is the ONLY way to go. At 52 the wheels fell off and it’s been a steady diet of humble pie ever since. For me there is a huge difference between my 50 yo self and now.

I consider myself to be lucky to be running at all. More than a few times I got so damn tired of being injured I just quit. As mo’pak answered to Hoser, eh above, it’s got to be easy and fun or it’s just not worth it. The science supports working on the aerobic system and slow fun running will get it done. To race though, I think most agree you do have to do something fast periodically.

Rtype,

Thanks, I assume you feel like Ed, that this is good training for 800m and 1500m.

I read the book "Run Less, Run Faster," which I think has some good concepts. Except, I come from a distance background, so "more is better" seems to work best for me.

Igy

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Rtype,

Thanks, I assume you feel like Ed, that this is good training for 800m and 1500m.

I read the book "Run Less, Run Faster," which I think has some good concepts. Except, I come from a distance background, so "more is better" seems to work best for me.

Igy

I'd have to modify that a bit for the 800 though. The once a week hard thing would need to be something to increase the neuro-muscular firing rate. Some kind of drills or repetition. I'd literally fall on my face if I tried to race an 800 without teaching my legs to turnover fast. Of course racing the 800 counts too.

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Week 264

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Greetings, 50+ers. Someone's going to have to take lead this week. We're in Wisconsin and on a tight schedule. Hope you all are doing great. I'll report in later when we return back to Lexington.

A lot of great conversation last week! It'll take me some time to digest it.

OK, I'm off for a day of pontooning on Lake Geneva.

All the Best!

Igloi, me as well for the need~for~mileage thing. Not an inordinately high amount of mileage , but at least high relative to my standards.. Usually 55~60miles /95~100 km per week start giving me some results in the right direction. Presently up to 70km so some way to go yet..

My week:

Monday: 6.5 miles easy

Tuesday: 6.5 miles steady

Wednesay: speed ,4 x 200m ,34, 33,32 ,31 sec, 10 minute jog rest, then 4 x 200 metre hill, 5.5 miles total

Thursday: 6.5 steady

Friday: 6 easy

Saturday: off

Sunday: 1.5 warmup, 1hour tempo on treadmill, 1% incline , 1.5 warmdown.

Ran 10.23 miles in one hour , 58.39 for 10miles. 29.50 1st 5m/ 28.49 second 5m

The total was 44m for week and the 1 hour tempo was best yet by 20secs. The heat is still effecting me as the fan stopped with 18 min to go, otherwise could have run significantly quicker for last 3. Oh well at least moving ahead with training..and got a chance to hit the track for 200s without injuring myself...although the hams were very tight the following two days. I will keep mileage in 40s and hope to keep there until stagnation in tempo improvement..the law of diminishing returns seems to have already kicked in! Thanks all for sharing training and knowledge..cheers

Kaku/kirk

Mon. Hiked 7 km inc 2 climbs total elevation gain 170 metres wearing weighted vest and back pack, about 20 kg. Dropped the pack and vest and did a 1.7 km loop running at a steady pace.

Tue. 5 x up the roo track 400 metres elevation gain, total 6 kms 1 hr 4 min. Then ran 4 kms in 22 mins.

Wed. 13 kms running over the steep trails 345 metres of elevation gain 1 h 23 mins. The last 2 kms in 9.33.

Thu. 20 km mtn bike ride easy spinning on railtrail and forest trails on a windy day.

Fri. 8.9 km rugged trail run up and down Mt Macedon 600 metres of elevation gain 1 hr 19 mins. Snowing.

13 km spin on the mountain bike.

Sat. Club race. 3.5 km warmup run, 3.2 km trail race 13.30, 3.5 km cooldown jog.

35 min kayak session on the Campaspe River.

Sun. 2.5 km warmup run, 5 km hilly trail race 75 metres of elevation gain, 22.30 then 1.5 km jog.

A pleasing week with 3 good solid hill runs and 2 sharp club races. Substituted the weighted hike on Monday as a change up from running.

I intended to ride and kayak friday but heard it was snowing just an hour away. We don't get snow too often in my region so I decided to head out there for a run.

Continuing modest progress on my recovery from runners' knee. I added a couple of miles to 29 for this week, but only did two runs of 4 miles each rather than three runs like last week. But the two runs were a bit faster. Last week my runs were all around 9:45/mile. This week it was

M- 4 miles at 8:47/mi

T- 4 walking

W- 4 miles at 8:09/mi

Th- 4 walking

F- 4 walking

S- 5 walking (this was planned to be a run but my knee was sore)

Su-4 walking

I also did three strength workouts rather than two this week, and three weeks ago I added a set of squats with 25kgs weights to the other body weight only exercises I was doing. The first time with the weights I did 8 reps and thought my hamstrings might cramp for about 3 hrs afterward. This week I was up to 15 reps all three days and it felt like I was near max, but fine afterward.

Nice to have some new blood on the thread.

A good week, interrupted by a pleasant two-night, three-day family camping trip just outside of Rocky Mountain National Park. I needed the days off after a rocky (literally and figuratively) trail run that left me quite leg sore.

Monday: 7.8 on trails, rocky and somewhat hilly

Tuesday: 4.2 progression run (working down to 6:30 pace) on treadmill + weights

Weds: 5.2 easy + weights

Thurs: Off (camping trip)

Friday: Off (camping trip)

Saturday: Off (camping trip)

Sunday: 13 steady

The long-ish run this morning was the first time above 10 or 11 miles in at least a year. I kept it to a conservative pace (8:45) and felt reasonably good, although it is daunting to think about racing twice that distance and a goal pace of at least a minute per mile faster. But then again there is a lot of time until the Wineglass marathon on Oct. 2. Onwards!

I had another decent week with none of the past injuries or fatigue showing up! Ended up with 62 miles and two workouts. Tuesday we did 6 x 400; avg'd around 80.6; Saturday was 13 with miles 5-9 at 6:50; mile 12 at 6:20...the rest were at 7:35-7:40.

Its so nice to be able run pain free once again. Not sure what the funk was I had that brought me down in May but it seems to be gone. Just hoping I can keep up more of the same consistent training through the rest of the Summer. Then maybe I can start thinking about running some respectable races this Fall. I just need 2-3 months of solid training...

I'll be running an 8 mile race on the 4th of July. Thinking about just keeping the miles up around 60 for as long as I can so I won't be resting much for the race.

* Kaku... those are some solid 10 mile Tempos. Whats your 10 mile race times? How old are you?

* Is the old Masters thread gone? It really seemed to fade away this past year. Maybe L2b can re-title this thread to include them? Or maybe we don't want those young punks invading our thread!...

Have a good one,

Dave

Congrats on the club races mo’pak.

Nice miles Dave and good luck on the 8 mile race.

My week;

Mon = 90 min hard, very rocky trail

Tue = Rest

Wed = 90 min easy, cemetery

Thu = 90 min, medium, cemetery

Fri = Rest

Sat = 45 min on track: 1600 wrmp, 1600 @ 6:48, 1 lap walk then 1600 @ 6:42

Sun = 90 min medium hard, with gang of ultra-runners

A pretty good week. Monday’s very rocky trail left me wanting to get away from the trail a bit for Wed and Thur. But Thur, at about 57 min, I had a bit of a PF tweak of the right foot. By 3 min it was gone but left me freaking out a bit since its PF. But Sat I tested it by leaning on the pace quite a bit on the track and there were no problems. If I had to guess it was a combination of transitioning to new shoes and too much road. I think that at 57 min I reached a certain fatigue level and my form broke down. Today I ran with 4 ultra-runners, 3 of which have done 100 milers. They’re easy pace was hard for me. It was fun but I am sore.

Have a great week folks.

racerdb wrote:

... I just need 2-3 months of solid training...

Ha! I'm going to have that chiseled on my tombstone. I'm sure every one of us on this thread has said those words more times than we can count.

hi Dave. I had been leading off the Masters Weekend Runs and Races thread for past few years and stopped a few weeks ago [having given my two weeks' notice!]. I don't see that anyone else has picked up the baton. As you noted, the volume of posts had declined a great deal.

best wishes,

Dave Haaga

Igy here. First time running four days in a week since 2012. Here is my actual schedule for the week.

Monday: 2 miles easy; 800m-1,000m-1,200m-1,000m-800m all at tempo pace (7:50-8:00 mile) with 2 minutes rest between; mile easy

Tuesday: 3.25 mile walk

Wednesday: 2 miles easy; 4x250m-2x500m-1x1,000m-2x500m-4x250m all at cruise interval pace (6:50-7:20) with approximately half+ distance jog between; mile easy

Thursday: 10:00 spin bike; 30:00 various body weight exercises

Friday: 2 miles easy

Saturday: 2 miles easy; 2 sets of 4x350m all at repetition pace 1:19-1:25 (1:30-1:36 400m) with 250m walk and 400m walk between sets; first set average 1:24 and second set average 1:20; mile easy

Sunday: Off

I am training for our state Senoir Games 800m and 1500m the first week of August. Next week I plan to add another easy run day with similar workouts for the hard days. I spend at least 30 minutes on flexibility most days.

I would welcome comments and critiques.

Igy

Five runs this week for 36 total miles, but only one ride as we spent most of the week camping at Yosemite. I may go for a ride this evening, but with temps near 100 I probably won't.

I did my Tuesday workout early in the morning before we left, which consisted of 4x 800 @ 2:42 average (2 min rest), followed by 4x 200 @ 33-33-32-32 (1:45 rest). Runs in Yosemite Valley Wed-Fri mornings were 7 easy, 9 easy then 6 easy with 2x 0.4mile tempos uphill to Mirror Lake. Mixed in about 30 miles of hiking/walking from Tuesday through Friday. Followed up with a steady 5.7 mile run this morning, albeit on a slightly sore calf.

I haven't posted for the past two weeks due to technical difficulties and a lack of interesting running workouts. I'm doing about 120m/p/w of biking and working hard on strength and flexibility exercises until I get the OK from my doctor to begin run/walking. I've basically been doing my regular running workouts on the bike so I hope I won't have to start over from square one. My plan is to begin running again on an Alter G in two weeks. Has anyone tried using one?

Dave - We're currently in Chicago where my husband is attending the Running Summit Midwest. Tinman is one of the key speakers so I thought you might be up here too. Are you still using his workouts? Good luck on your 4th of July race.

Igy - Are you doing any strength work? You need strength for those shorter races you want to run. Weight is really important too. OG II said he weighs the same as he did in college and so do I (I'm 63). Losing extra lbs will help you drop your times faster than will additional training alone.

Where are you in Idaho? I worked for the USFS on the Sawtooth National Recreation Area for 10 years. I'd move back in a minute for the beautiful mountains and low humidity.

Mo'pak - Enjoy the snow. It's hot and humid on this side of the equator!

Thanks to all of you for posting your workouts and race results. I'm living vicariously through you until I can be back out running again ;-)