| deleuze |
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| gamecock |
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I never was on the Jordan bandwagon. I was (and am) a Bird fan. But you cannot rank anybody ahead of Jordan as "best of all time" unless you spend an awful lot of time defining "best" in some way other than most people do or finding ways to discount the evidence. He scored more per game than Wilt, while also being the league's premier defender. Nobody today averages what he did, even though points are easier to get these days. His six rings, especially coming in the 2 three-peats, are unparalleled in the modern era. Even when compared to Russell's 11, his individual stats were so much better, and he had no one comparable to Cousy or Havlicek. I think that in many, many ways, Bird and Magic were better, more complete players. But at the end of the day, the combination of offense, defense, and winning puts Jordan atop the all-time list in a place that no one else can approach. As for Lebron, for all of his immense gifts, he still is at least 4 wins away from his FIRST championship. |
| LB not |
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LB may be the greatest player from Southern Indiana but he wouldn't even get drafted with the level of play that the NBA has today. |
| White Man |
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He isn't even the greatest white man. Jerry West is the greatest white man who ever played in the NBA. |
| Runningart2004 |
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Bird, Chamberlain and Russell are the ONLY players to win 3 MVP titles in consecutive years. He is the only player in history to average 20 pts, 10 rebounds and 5 assists for a career and is 5th all-time in triple doubles. He was the first player in history to shoot 50% from the field, 40% from 3-pt land, and 90% of the free throw line for a season. Only Nash has more 50/40/90 seasons. As far as Bird not being physical? Are you serious? Go ask the Pistons' "Bad Boys" how physical Bird was in the mid 80s. Alan |
| White Man |
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So what ? Obama got elected by lib white and he denies whites their Human Rights in the mid east. At least Jerry West would make the NBA today. Bird wouldn't even be drafted in today's NBA. |
| Ngr be Bad |
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Bird played in the expansion years of the NBA. If he played in the full strength Super NBA of the 1960s he'd be the 11th man. |
| kujtrewd |
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Nothing against Bird who was certainly one of the all time greats but what the heck does "consecutive" have to do with anything? What, if they are won in consecutive years they are somehow worth more than if they are won in non-consecutive years? Also, anyone who was paying attention knows that the only reason Jordan didn't win the MVP every single year from his third season until he retired is because voters get bored with giving it to the same guy. That is the only possible way that folks like Charles Barkley and Karl Malone could ever have gotten the award during those years. |
| dean moriarty |
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Agreed, the MVP's have a long and dubious history. I do like how Scottie is responding to my passionate defense of his career by acting like a complete douche today after being off the radar since he retired. |
| XCxxx |
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Jordan & Pippen played during the watered down NBA expansion period. If they played in the 1960s or 1970s they would have sat on the bench the whole game. |
| kujtrewd |
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This ^ is what passes for clever trolling? Apparently we are living in the watered down expansion period of trolling. |
| Most |
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Virtually all the players from the 80s would be tired after one quarter in today's NBA. They didn't shoot 3s that well in the 80s. The conditioning sucked. No real-time supercomputer stats for the coaches. Etc. |
| The BCS Forever |
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The BCS and SOS is a sham and so is MVP and other white sportswriter polls and glamour contests. That's why T&F is so great because it's only you. No polls. |
| ...., |
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I hope you're joking |
| 80s Expansion |
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80s expansion was Jordan's NBA. Easy then. I doubt if he'd be a starter on a team in today's NBA. |
| Nighthawk |
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I can only imagine the average age of anyone who doesn't think Bird could play today is less than 30. That would make you about 6 years old when Bird was done being the best player in the world... which he was at one point (at least)----which means you didn't see nothin'....and even back in 1979, they were saying 'he couldn't play in this league'. Before surgery on both heels and back trouble, Larry was 20-3 in matchups against Jordan's teams. From 1985-1988, Bird outshot from the floor/ behind the arc/ from the line, outscored, outrebounded & outpassed Jordan in 17 head to head games (Celtics were 16-1)... Bird is 1 of 2 players in NBA history whose teams won over 60 games for every 82 he played in (Magic)... he is 1 of 2 players in NBA history to be 1st or 2nd in MVP voting SIX consecutive years (Russell)... He went to a bad team (29-53) which was bad the year before that, too (32-50)----and transformed them into a 61-21 club in one year. And he was the ONLY new starter. That's the best 1 year turnaround in NBA history with only 1 new starter... When Bird missed the 1988-89 season (save 6 injury riddled games), the Celtics started the season 24-28 without him. That's WITH Parish, McHale, Ainge, DJ and Reggie Lewis all playing. Michael Jordan NEVER had such an impact on his teams' winning and losing. In one of his final years, even beat up as he was, the Celtics were 46-14 with him VS 10-12 without him. The GREATEST impact any singular player had on his teams' winning and losing. PERIOD. What's greater than impacting your teams' winning more than anyone else? The 1980s was a ROUGH Era. Jordan's toughest competition (with apologies to the Knicks) in the 90s was the Jazz. The Mailman and Stockton had been together 12 years before they even MADE an NBA Finals---and that was the toughest squad Jordan faced in the 90s. The Jazz had better teams in the late 80s that couldn't even crack 50 wins or get out of the 1st Round. Jordan beat lesser Jazz teams in a watered down 90s. Where was Jordan in the 80s? Losing 20 times out of 23 to Bird's teams-------who couldn't even win half their games when Bird wasn't there. How did the Bulls do without Jordan in 1994? 55 wins? Not bad. Jordan just wasn't as indispensable as Bird. History says so. And for all the 20-somethings who look at film of basketball played 25, 35, 45 or more years ago and laugh at it--------don't make the mistake of thinking that Julius Erving was allowed 3 steps and a hop to the side like LeBron is. Erving could dunk from the foul line before LeBron was born. Give Dr. J the hop step AFTER 3 other steps-----and Lord only knows what HE could have done. Don't look at Bob Cousy dribble and wonder why he looks stiff----he wasn't allowed to turn the ball over when dribbling and hold it on his hip like these clowns today. LeBron would have 10-12 turnovers per game playing by the old rules. Bird may or may not be the GOAT----but if you didn't see him play live when you were old enough t know what you were watching---you don't know a thing about him. |
| Sports Analyst |
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Folks, this guy gets it. It's more or less the same in the NFL. Frank Gifford who was once a RB/WR and considered a great, speedy athlete had an all-time best 40 yard dash time of 5.17 which would be slow even for a 350 pound lineman today. For whatever reason, the 2012 athlete is physically superior to the athlete in prior decades. |
| break it up |
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Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson. Then Jordan. Bird is real close. |
| Nighthawk |
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Anyone who thinks the game is MORE physical now than it was in the 80s must be a 20-something. If Bird played today, I'll admit---he'd probably score only 15 per game... but that's because he's like 55 years old. LOL. |
| He got game |
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What about when Jordan dropped 63 POINTS on the Celtics in only his 2nd year of playing in the NBA. He almost single handily beat the Celtics on their own court. And this was when the Celtics were the best team in the NBA. Walton, Bird, Mchale, none of those guys could've stopped him that night. Hell, Bird had FOUR hall of famers on his team. How many did a young MJ have? I'll wait..... |