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North Coast
RE: Gianni Ghidini 800/1500m training 3/22/2011 6:21PM - in reply to 800mrunneryea Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I can't believe this thread hasn't gotten more run. Interesting approach. Love to understand it better.
800mrunneryea
RE: Gianni Ghidini 800/1500m training 3/22/2011 9:02PM - in reply to North Coast Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
yes I agree. Lets hope Renato will respond to it.
Based on the info in this thread and from other info from Renato/Gianni ghidini I created a training program for 400/800m runners. Feel free to comment on it if u disagree with something. I think the program will be suitable for 2.00- 1.55 runners.

m:5x800m/ rest 3-5 min 3k pace or faster
t:40 easy
w:8x100m hill sprint. walk back rec
t:20e+10x100m strides @800m pace. 1 min rec
f:3x3x300m @800m pace. 2 and 3 min rec p 5 min set p
s:Rest
s:30e+10x8 sec hill sprints. 2min rec.

m:1200-1000-800-600-400 (rest: 4-6-7-8)
t:40e
w:4x6x60m. 1.30 min rec. 5 min set rec
t:20e+10x100m strides @800m pace. 1 min rec
f:2x600m,2x600m.2X600m. 3min rec,6 min set 1.39, 1.36, 1.33
s:Rest
s:30 easy+3x5x60m hill sprints. 1min rec. 5 min set rec

Easy week
m:30e
t:20e++2x7x100m@ 800m pace. rec "1" and "4"
w:20e+20min fast LT run
t:20e+5x80strides
f:4x300x2 (46,45,44,43) r. "2-3-4" "6"*
s:Rest
s:30e+10x8 sec hill sprints. 2min rec.
800mrunneryea
RE: Gianni Ghidini 800/1500m training 3/22/2011 9:02PM - in reply to North Coast Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
yes I agree. Lets hope Renato will respond to it.
Based on the info in this thread and from other info from Renato/Gianni ghidini I created a training program for 400/800m runners. Feel free to comment on it if u disagree with something. I think the program will be suitable for 2.00- 1.55 runners.

m:5x800m/ rest 3-5 min 3k pace or faster
t:40 easy
w:8x100m hill sprint. walk back rec
t:20e+10x100m strides @800m pace. 1 min rec
f:3x3x300m @800m pace. 2 and 3 min rec p 5 min set p
s:Rest
s:30e+10x8 sec hill sprints. 2min rec.

m:1200-1000-800-600-400 (rest: 4-6-7-8)
t:40e
w:4x6x60m. 1.30 min rec. 5 min set rec
t:20e+10x100m strides @800m pace. 1 min rec
f:2x600m,2x600m.2X600m. 3min rec,6 min set 1.39, 1.36, 1.33
s:Rest
s:30 easy+3x5x60m hill sprints. 1min rec. 5 min set rec

Easy week
m:30e
t:20e++2x7x100m@ 800m pace. rec "1" and "4"
w:20e+20min fast LT run
t:20e+5x80strides
f:4x300x2 (46,45,44,43) r. "2-3-4" "6"*
s:Rest
s:30e+10x8 sec hill sprints. 2min rec.
800mrunneryea
RE: Gianni Ghidini 800/1500m training 3/24/2011 9:10AM - in reply to 800mrunneryea Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
If someone wants, I have collected all post by Renato Canova on 800m training in one text document. Its 35 pages long.
nikko
RE: Gianni Ghidini 800/1500m training 3/24/2011 10:25AM - in reply to 800mrunneryea Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Id like to see all the 800m trainin pages you have collected from Renato
dsrunner has the day off
RE: Gianni Ghidini 800/1500m training 3/24/2011 10:34AM - in reply to 800mrunneryea Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
The formula is this, the 800m time for a 400/800 runner is
proportional to that runner's 4x400m split capability, this split time is with a running start. Multiply the 4x400m split by 2.33

Example:
Loxom 45 x 2.33 = 1:45
Borz 44 x 2.33 = 1:42.7
Harbig 46 x 2.33 = 1:45

Fiascanero, Ereng, Rodahl...

If you cannot achieve the ratio, you either need more work on stamina or to return to the 400m as a primary event.

800/1500m runners will multiply their 4x400m capability by
2.25

Webb, Manzano 46 x 2.25 = 1:43.5
Coe, Cruz 45 x 2.25 = 141.2
agadsfgsdfgs
RE: Gianni Ghidini 800/1500m training 3/24/2011 11:35AM - in reply to dsrunner has the day off Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

dsrunner has the day off wrote:

The formula is this, the 800m time for a 400/800 runner is
proportional to that runner's 4x400m split capability, this split time is with a running start. Multiply the 4x400m split by 2.33

Example:
Loxom 45 x 2.33 = 1:45
Borz 44 x 2.33 = 1:42.7
Harbig 46 x 2.33 = 1:45

Fiascanero, Ereng, Rodahl...

If you cannot achieve the ratio, you either need more work on stamina or to return to the 400m as a primary event.

800/1500m runners will multiply their 4x400m capability by
2.25

Webb, Manzano 46 x 2.25 = 1:43.5
Coe, Cruz 45 x 2.25 = 141.2


That seems a little quick on the 400m necessary for an 8/15 guy. For example, a 1:53 guy (running say..3:50) would need to run 50-flat
800mrunneryea
RE: Gianni Ghidini 800/1500m training 3/24/2011 1:02PM - in reply to nikko Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
maybe its most easy if I get your mailadress
bart300000
RE: Gianni Ghidini 800/1500m training 3/24/2011 4:16PM - in reply to 800mrunneryea Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I started training a year ago with a sprint coach trying to improve in the 800m, it was weird at first because we weren't doing any base or at least mileage base we were doing strenght base, circuits, hills, weights, etc.
The training in my opinion is great but it lacks distance, and think even the 400/800m runners need some distance. Let me explain why. The first competition we ran it was a disaster, all the 800m runners died in the 500m mark, we felt great going out fast but just couldn't hold after the 500m mark.
At the time we were doing repetitions faster than 800m pace 300 mostly, something they recommended here the 20 easy then 6x100m but the 20 easy were after the 6x100m, 600m at race pace etc, our longest run was 30 min steady running I mean.
After this race the number of repetitions increased and the average time we could hit got lower, then we race again, it was not great but our times were getting a lot better, and we felt better than the previous time , the starting the competition period 5 of 6 of us got injured, proabably because we werent asked to do nor gym and well we lacked the base, I myself couldn't run for 3 weeks, but here's an interesting thing that happened, one of us got injured, but not so badly, so the coach tried to maintan his fitness by doing some long easy runs, 3 weeks he trained like that, after 3 weeks we had a competition, he wasn't really eager to compete but we convinced him, boom 2 seconds pr, from no speedwork at all, in 3 weeks.
My conclusion about this is that the training suggested here is great, I feel great with this training, and I improved my times for the 100m to the 700m :) but not the 800m, I lost the ability to do some hard tempo, because we mainly did none, now checking my previous logs, I ran my 800m pb from slow reps not faster than 28 per 200m rep, while with this training we do insanely fast workouts yet is harder to reach the same level, the program is great., but for me it just need some more base and maybe more gym.

PS-Could you provide a link to those Renato files you mentioned.
nikko
RE: Gianni Ghidini 800/1500m training 3/24/2011 5:48PM - in reply to 800mrunneryea Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
800mrunneryea
RE: Gianni Ghidini 800/1500m training 3/24/2011 6:12PM - in reply to bart300000 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
In my opinion I believe longer intervalls of length 800m-1000m-1200m during base training will build the necessary endurance for the 400/800m runner. For me it just seems logical that these will be suffient for a race lasting 2 min or less. Of course key sessions like 4x400m or 3x600m with longer recoveries at race pace most be performed for optimal results during competition period.

I think the problem with holding pace after 500`mark is because of lack of longer intervalls like 400-600 at race pace. Same thing happened with me when my longest intervall was 300m. But even with the longest intervall of 300m I could run 51 in the 400m

I also think in many cases that hillsprints are much better than gym, and that gym work is overated for distances from 800m and upwards.

When u say that 5 of 6 runners where injured it seems like your coach did something very wrong with the training program. if 5 of 6 get injured then I can almost for sure say u are training too intens, too much or just wrong. It can also explain why your friend running easy for 3 weeks got a pb, he finally could recover from the hard training and get a supercomp. Just a theory. And I might not be the easy running that was the solution of his success.

In the program I wrote there are no insanely fast workouts. Most is race pace or slower. Exept hills for pure speed. As I understand Renato canova says its not needed to run much faster than race pace, but train to extend the distance u can run at race pace.

From my experience the worst I did for 800m was mainly running 50 min LT sessions with little speedwork and only small amounts of intervalls at race pace. Ran my worst 800m on 2.09 on that training after 1.58 the previous year :(
But as u say we are different and respond differently to training.

I only have it on a document file. Its just a collection of renatos post on this forum on 800m training. I will save u for some searching :)
Leave ur email if u want and I can send it to you.
800 meter guy
RE: Gianni Ghidini 800/1500m training 3/24/2011 8:33PM - in reply to 800mrunneryea Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
800mrunneryea,

I would be greatly interested in Mr. Canova's words on 800m training

if you'd like, please send me the 35 page document, my email is stathakkis@gmail.com

thanks
bart300000
RE: Gianni Ghidini 800/1500m training 3/24/2011 9:21PM - in reply to 800 meter guy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Probably right sadly we didn't ran any more than 600m in repeats. Actually I think the problem of holding is the lack of those intervals at the beginning of the season.
In my earlier experience my pb came from running some reps at race pace or 1 sec slower, some long runs, lt works of 20 mins, no gym and a fewe hills.

A00998328@itesm.mx if you could provide the link :) thanks.
Great post
mmmmmmmm
RE: Gianni Ghidini 800/1500m training 3/25/2011 2:48PM - in reply to 800mrunneryea Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
could you possibly when you have time the document on 800m?

runningislife@hotmail.co.uk

thank you
ekger
RE: Gianni Ghidini 800/1500m training 3/25/2011 3:00PM - in reply to mmmmmmmm Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
If you send it to me I'll post it on my club team's website, then provide the link in this thread.

ekgconnecticut(AT)gmail.com
marke
RE: Gianni Ghidini 800/1500m training 3/25/2011 9:45PM - in reply to ekger Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
am i the only one who never has a clue what renato canova is saying and am not afraid to admit it?
ekger
RE: Gianni Ghidini 800/1500m training 3/27/2011 12:57AM - in reply to ekger Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
NIce! I received the document, thanks. I've posted it here as a Google Doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zdbg5yr1M16p1tzUMc27zBvV4uFRFIebqwuHynMaaFk/edit?hl=en

Let me know if that doesn't work for some reason.
another canuck
RE: Gianni Ghidini 800/1500m training 3/27/2011 8:51AM - in reply to ekger Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
In my opinion the longer intervals are the key. I don't see the point of 100m runs other than for form. ( I do see the hill work sprints, but I have never done it so can't say if they worked) The example of the 6 guys workouts seems like a common mistake. You run 300's and 400's a couple seconds under race pace and feel good, so you think the race will feel easy. However, reality sets in at 500-600 and you tie up.
I like to have my 800 guys run about a 95% 1000m as the best indicator of where we are.
Magnus Carlsen
RE: Gianni Ghidini 800/1500m training 3/27/2011 11:55AM - in reply to ekger Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I love you.
bart300000
RE: Gianni Ghidini 800/1500m training 4/4/2011 10:46PM - in reply to Magnus Carlsen Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
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