Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but only 1 and only 1 thread

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kirkaz

RE: The beginning 4/26/2012 11:55PM - in reply to GK

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GK wrote:

The how & why is what interests me. Unless Kip grows a pair, we are all gonna be left guessing. The 'how' in Boston is thing I'd like to know the most. I wish I could issue a challenge to people to cheat at Boston. Like offer money to anyone that can get away with not running half the course, hitting all the mats, not get caught, have the splits make sense, break 3hrs, and explain exactly how, and have a way to prove their claim (GPS data, video, pictures, etc). It just seems impossible to me.

I think we know he mustve gotten a car ride, taken the "T" train, rode a bike, or something of that nature. But Boston is a very difficult place to do that. The course is point to point, and it's got electronic checkpoints every 5 kilometers.

It takes some pretty careful planning to consistently hit close to all of them in the range of 6:25/mile or so.

Car scenario: Boston marathon is closed to traffic. It's extremely crowded.
Bike scenario: very possible.
T train scenario: unlikely because you'd probably end up going slower than the runners due to the high foot traffic surrounding the entire marathon area.
when you use any of these basic methods of transportation, do you arrive early and then stand around like a nonrunner looking at your watch and wait around a few minutes until the 5k interval (next checkpoint) is close to 20:00 or so and then cross the electronic timing mat? Possible but one wrong move and you screw up your pacing pretty easily. And the timing mats are supposed to be very sensitive as well.

Trollist

RE: The beginning 4/27/2012 5:04AM - in reply to Hmmmmmmm

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Hmmmmmmm wrote:
Unfair, I think contributors to this thread can be categorised as
2. Pro-Kip Trolls (I suspect possibly just one using a sockpuppetry approach)

No. It's not just me.

Cocoa Puffs

RE: The beginning 4/27/2012 5:53AM - in reply to kirkaz

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bike senario is easy. I've watched it many times and biked the streets. without a number on no one is looking at you or cares, as why would they?

then bike to another checkpoint, knowing approximately what time that you have to get there and walk across as you're looking backwards for a friend to come by, or whatever.

how to combat this, easy!!!! Every checkpoint should have spotters, over a dozen of them. If anyone gets near the mats and has no number, yell out to them and stop them. The spotters are on the ground in front of the mats. If someone is brazen enough, grab them and see if they have a number (get that number!!!!!) Make them expose their number or take their number off just like they have the right to do if you're in the wrong coral at the start.

he did it like I just said above and the picture that someone posted early on proves it. he could have had a rented car at a certain point and then abandoned the bike....aka left it wherever as it happens every year...too many bikes as they are everywhere.

Cocoa Puffs

RE: The beginning 4/27/2012 5:57AM - in reply to Cocoa Puffs

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also, take a picture of them and have video showing the whole mat. if he cheated and crossed those mats, it has to be on the video crossing or whoever actually had the chip on their shoe. piece of cake.

Hmmmmmm

RE: The beginning 4/27/2012 7:49AM - in reply to kirkaz

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Try Googling for the term
Argument from personal incredulity
Its what you and others are apparently doing.

Kirkaz

RE: The beginning 4/27/2012 10:03AM - in reply to Cocoa Puffs

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Cocoa Puffs wrote:

also, take a picture of them and have video showing the whole mat. if he cheated and crossed those mats, it has to be on the video crossing or whoever actually had the chip on their shoe. piece of cake.

This seems like a great idea, but they should make sure the mat isn't so sensitive that if you just go near it it will register. Ouch1000 pointed out how the mats are so sensitive that race staff setting up the start line set it off a bunch of times by mistake with a chip in the guy's pocket (wasn't on shoe or bib)

Lone gunman

RE: The beginning 4/27/2012 10:35AM - in reply to Hmmmmmm

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Too much unresearched conjecture on this thread. If I wanted to try to game the Boston marathon, here's what I think I would do. This took me 20 minutes to figure out.

First - download the instructions that the volunteer checkpoint people get: Here is a 2010 link for the volunteers. About 7/8th of the way down the document it lists precisely where the mats are. An interesting note, the checkpoint people are at every 5M, not at the 5K mats. There are there to manually document the first 100 male and female leaders to then later reconcile their times with the mat times, that's it. Everyone else is not tracked for all intents and purposes.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0BrfinYVelHNzVlMzEyOTItMTY1OS00MmIwLTk5OWEtMjg1NGM2NjgyZjQ2/edit?pli=1

Second, download a googlemap version of the course.

http://www.mapmyrun.com/routes/fullscreen/143368/

Third - run the first half normally. The first half of the race is very easy. 95% of people go out too hard and fade. Not that hard to do.

Fourth - bail out somewhere after the half marathon split, take a bike or ride (motorbike?) on to rt 9 and hit the 25K mat at the corner of hillside road. Back on ride to the 30K by getting back onto rt 9 and cutting up Chestnut st. Back to bike, back down chestnut and onto Beacon st where I would cut thru some small road by BC and hit the 35K. Cut down to Boylston st and then Brookline ave and up a side st to then hit the 40K. Run the rest. Get bike, if applicable, later.

I have no idea if that would really work with road closures etc but it might. It's not rocket science.

Again, 20 minutes.

MarathonMind

RE: The beginning 4/27/2012 11:34AM - in reply to Lone gunman

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Your plan may work but not the way you describe because Rte. 9 doesn't allow you to make left turns.
If you are headed east you will need an interchange with an overpass to get north of 9.
You would have to use the route below which assumes two things:

1. You can park your car in the Wellelsey MBTA lot which is 300 meters from the half mat. Also assume two minutes to get to it and get it started up.

2. You can get your car close enough to the 25k point on Walnut Street for another 300 meter walk/jog to the mat, again allowing two minutes for transition. The huge assumption here is that you can leave your car parked on the street or in someone's driveway for two or three minutes.

Both of these transition points give you about 12 minutes to make the drive between 21.1 and 25k. He split this in 16:48 in 2010.
Google says 11 minutes, but I have no idea what traffic conditions actually allow on Marathon Monday. I would assume it's much slower then.

http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Linden+St&daddr=42.30814,-71.28065+to:42.3162881,-71.2467763+to:Walnut+St&hl=en&ll=42.311275,-71.27655&spn=0.054078,0.09407&sll=42.313084,-71.265435&sspn=0.027038,0.047035&geocode=FcBohQIdCB7A-w%3BFSyShQId9lfA-ynDoQpnUYHjiTEok3QJ9GLe-w%3BFQCyhQIdSNzA-ykl75uR0YPjiTGVR1ey8uqqDA%3BFWzAhQIdqJvA-w&t=h&mra=dvme&mrsp=2&sz=15&via=1,2&z=14

He may very well have done this in 2009, but it cost him because it took two minutes longer- 18:47 that year. I think he did something different in 2010.

JOKM

RE: The beginning 4/27/2012 12:34PM - in reply to MarathonMind

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MarathonMind wrote:That's basically what interests me here. Some are saying 'big deal he hitched a ride between mats' thinking it's so easy at Boston when in fact it's not due to the traffic and road closures. Far easier said than done.

Occam's Razor. He didn't cheat.

MarathonMind

RE: The beginning 4/27/2012 12:47PM - in reply to JOKM

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Really dude? How do you explain this? http://jimrhoades.com/10/boston/30k/image705.html

Does that really look like the stride of a guy running a 19:42 split?
Did he really average 6:20 miles up two of the Newton Hills?
My Occam's Razor tells me something else.

The easy way

RE: The beginning 4/27/2012 12:57PM - in reply to Lone gunman

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Highly unlikely in 2010 he ran the first half and then pulled a ghost routine.

The splits at 15k, 20k and 1/2 all indicate a 2:55ish marathon. At that point it would be easiest to just keep going & finish out the race legit.

The bodies of water on both sides of the 15k area prevents any reasonable cutting opportunities, except if you were a 4-5 hour pace jogger.

The splits are so unusually realistic one could ALMOST believe they were real.

Reservation for Copperfield? Copperfield??