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categorically
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but 1 and only 1 thread 10/31/2011 5:43PM - in reply to Florida midtimer Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Florida midtimer wrote:

Yes, interesting observation. The person on Bolyston Street looks younger (maybe the angle?) and also does not look somewhat fresh and dry, not like someone who just ran the Boston course for 26.1 miles. Also, fyi, if you look at the baa 5k finish picture, the right hand is lifting up the blue jacket for the "reveal" of the number. just another observation.

Has boston 2007 been vetted? 2:58 is an interesting time on a yr where it was cold and super windy. In fact the race was almost cancelled due to a potential noreaster that day.


I was going to note that the picture from the 5k looks a bit different from the marathon the next day.

Actually, the guy in the 5k looks a lot more like the Boylston st picture than the other one.

What was the race where the RD questioned why Kip didn't have his D-tag on his shoe? Kip said it broke so he put it in his sock. That might be a race where he kept the chip in his hand so he could pass it off more easily.

I find it hard to believe that his brother is at every race. But the simple explanation is that he's not. They probably only raced "together" a few times.
Study of K.Litton Running
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but 1 and only 1 thread 10/31/2011 5:51PM - in reply to Fell Runner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
As you may know, I have a poll on my SOKLR blog and it appears 50% of people believe there is never going to be an article. These folks are wrong - I think this may be due to Kip coming on here and raising doubts with trolling posts such as " send info to writestuffdavis" (DO NOT DO THIS!!!) Or Kip's coming onto the blog and voting "NEVER," etc.

As of last week, I had not heard from the author (which I said on pg110). BUT I just learned of the author this week so I now know first-hand it's for real and not a joke. The bottom line is that there is an editorial reason the article has not been published. There are a few troll posts on here that may very likely be Kip. Someone (maybe Kip) came on here as writestuffdavis trying to fool us. DO NOT send any of your info to this email - as Scott Hubbard said in a previous post here, it's bogus.

if you want to forward any leads to the author for national magazine about anything to do with the Kip Litton story, I suggest you send an email one of these Kip-aholics (from across the USA)....

myself (i live on east coast USA) at SOKLR@hotmail.com
Scott Hubbard (Michigan USA) at runningshorts@aol.com
OR the Montana guy who helped bust Kip at Ouch1000@hotmail.com (Montana USA).

Thanks...and keep up the great detective work!!! :)
categorically
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but 1 and only 1 thread 10/31/2011 6:01PM - in reply to categorically Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I just found the race with the "chip in sock" excuse. It was the Providence Cox Marathon where Kip changed shoes mid race. He was DQed by the RD.

Take a closer look at the pictures on the SOKLR blog.

http://kiplitton.blogspot.com/2010/12/providence-cox-marathon-photos-show-mr.html

The guy at the start looks like he has a red bandana under his hat. The other pictures (with different shoes) don't show a bandana.

It's the same in the Boston pictures from 2010. You can see a bandana in the finish pic but not earlier. It would be strange to put a bandana on mid race, no?

It might be the same in the Deadwood trail marathon (also a DQ). The pics of him looking around before walking over the timing mat clearly show something red sticking out from under his hat but he doesn't have it at the finish line.
Fell Runner
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but 1 and only 1 thread 10/31/2011 6:12PM - in reply to Study of K.Litton Running Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Study of K.Litton Running wrote:
I think this may be due to Kip coming on here and raising doubts with trolling posts such as " send info to writestuffdavis" (DO NOT DO THIS!!!) Or Kip's coming onto the blog and voting "NEVER," etc.


I emailed the fictional author "writestuffdavis", I introduced myself as Roberto Vasquez who some people may remember from my heroic second place to Kip's epic win at the West Wyoming Marathon. Oddly enough "writestuff" has not bothered to reply, almost like he knows something about me.
Kyp Lyttyn
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but 1 and only 1 thread 10/31/2011 6:16PM - in reply to categorically Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
categorically wrote:

I just found the race with the "chip in sock" excuse. It was the Providence Cox Marathon where Kip changed shoes mid race. He was DQed by the RD.


He must have used the excuse twice then because he said the same thing in Delaware...

From the RD's blog (http://races2run.blogspot.com/2010/08/world-record-runkip-litton.html)

"Check out this website http://www.worldrecordrun.com. You will not see any info on our Delaware Marathon. Why....because this guy Kip Litton was dq'ed. And I am not the only race director who has dq'ed him. Kip is trying to raise money for CF....but who are checks written to? His website. I have a team of 3 runners who have researched this guy. What we have come up with will blow your mind. Yes...he may be capable of running under 3 hours so why cheat? Look at the photo of his shoes as he crossed our DE Marathon finish line. NO D Tag! I emailed him about this and his response was "it was broken so I placed it in my sock". He stated that he has run over 100 races. OK...so he should know know how to put on D tag properly.... right? Before I dq'ed him I emailed our Regional RRCA director who also ran in our marathon and asked him what he thought. He said I have the right to DQ him. I then emailed Kip Litton to let him know that he has been dq'ed from my event. He did not respond back. NO splits....no photos on Brightroom.com...NO pics from the race director taking photos at the turn a round on the riverwalk at 14 miles. HELLO. Why would someone travel this far NOT to run a marathon.....I give up.
Posted by Wayne at"
Kipped at 2010 BAA 5K
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but 1 and only 1 thread 10/31/2011 6:24PM - in reply to Kyp Lyttyn Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
The only time I have ever held my shirt over a race bib is because photographers are yelling at me and my race belt with my number was either still turned to my backside or was under my shirt. Kip is serial. As far as clothes change or lag time from gun to chip nobody that is racing would even think of either.
havent read the whole thread
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but 1 and only 1 thread 10/31/2011 7:09PM - in reply to Fell Runner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Fell Runner wrote:

Having mulled it over in the gym, I don't buy the brother theory....
1. What's his motive?....
2. Where are the missing mid-race photos?....
3. Chip-cloning appears to be fantasy....
4. The accomplice theory adds more questions than it answers....


1. Maybe growing up as brothers they enjoyed tag-teaming on how they could get away with stuff. Twins like to do that sometimes. Granted, it'd be easier to expect if Kurt and Kip were twins, but still you can see two young boys collaborating to get away with stuff from their parents (not serving as imposters for each other since they are 3 yrs apart, just covering for each other).

2. Maybe Kip doesn't use his brother for all his cheating exploits, just for some of the more difficult courses to cheat.

Just my two cents.
Fell Runner
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but 1 and only 1 thread 10/31/2011 7:18PM - in reply to havent read the whole thread Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
havent read the whole thread wrote:

Just my two cents.


1. But they aren't twins and they are adults now.
2. That doesn't explain the missing photos at all, maybe I missed the point?
GK
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but 1 and only 1 thread 10/31/2011 8:25PM - in reply to Fell Runner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I'm not giving in to the twin theory until someone can dig up a bunch of Lost & Found photos of him. We know he doesn't use his own chip. You see him holding a normal one nearly falling over the finish line at St. Louis. Interesting thing about the chips though. If they are the same kind, they WILL read at another race. I've had old chips left behind from a previous race register before. I suppose if you had a way to make your own chips, one could cheat the system that way, but not likely. The other hole in the theory is that if each brother runs half the race with cloned chips, then how do you miss splits?
havent read the whole thread
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but 1 and only 1 thread 10/31/2011 8:48PM - in reply to Fell Runner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Fell Runner wrote:

[quote]havent read the whole thread wrote:

Just my two cents.


1. But they aren't twins and they are adults now.
2. That doesn't explain the missing photos at all, maybe I missed the point?[/quote]

1. Exactly. That's what I said. They're not twins, but brothers sometimes enjoy collaborating to pull stunts just to get away with something. Like I said, it'd be more plausible if they were twins, but still it's possible as brothers, even as adults. Why would Kip alone as an adult pull all these stunts, even completely fabricating an entire race with website and everything?
2. Exactly. I don't have an explanation for the missing photos. Just offering the suggestion that KL detectives shouldn't expect every race to have been cheated the same way (with or without the use of his brother).
Holland MI
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but only 1 and only 1 thread 10/31/2011 8:49PM - in reply to Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
David Litton has lived his life with honor, dignity and according to the highest ethical standard. He is a patriot, loves god, his family and his country. He is a natural athlete, a warrior and decent member of his community.
kirkaz
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but only 1 and only 1 thread 10/31/2011 9:32PM - in reply to Holland MI Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Holland MI wrote:

David Litton has lived his life with honor, dignity and according to the highest ethical standard. He is a patriot, loves god, his family and his country. He is a natural athlete, a warrior and decent member of his community.


hello Kip. how are you? :)
Race detective
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but 1 and only 1 thread 10/31/2011 10:43PM - in reply to Fell Runner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Not surprising to see a lot of healthy discussion generated from my Monday morning posts. Obviously only Kip knows the full truth: what I presented was my best interpretation/deduction of what I could see from others posts, race data, and the photographic evidence.

Part of what I wrote was an explanation for cheating at the most difficult to cheat races. It need not have applied to all of the incidences.

LD wrote> I like the idea of having a twin brother doing all of this, but the truth is, I think it is just Kip. Having a brother involved just sounds too complicated.

I like what 'Categorically' wrote about this: I find it hard to believe that his brother is at every race. But the simple explanation is that he's not. They probably only raced "together" a few times." I believe that Kurt was involved at least at VCM, Deadwood, Sarasota, Delaware, Providence, and Boston. I don't think that Kurt helped out at Rochester and a number of other races with conspicuously missing mid-race photos and missed splits.

FR> That doesn't explain the missing photos at all, maybe I missed the point?

GK> I'm not giving in to the twin theory until someone can dig up a bunch of Lost & Found photos of him.

There are several races (e.g. most of those mentioned above) with photos of 'Kip' at different points in the race with different shoes, different hats, with and without bandannas, etc. With sunglasses on, it is hard to prove these are two different people, but, getting back to FR's comments about Occam's Razor, what is the simplest explanation for this? Two different people! That being said, in my morning posts, I gave the evidence which shows both Kip and Kurt at the same race with images without sunglasses on their faces, where you can clearly see that these are two different people. Go back to my post at the bottom of p. 114, open up both links of photos from the 2009 Sarasota Half marathon, compare the photos, and then look up the image of Kurt from the 2007 article I directed readers to. I can't prove it is Kurt vs. some third person in the other races, but in this Sarasota race, Kurt was helping Kip cheat the race, and if he did it this once, it is likely this wasn't the only time.
Race detective
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but 1 and only 1 thread 10/31/2011 11:30PM - in reply to Interested observer Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Interested observer wrote:

I don't understand what motivation Kurt would have to conspire with his brother in this way. He does not seem to have any real athletic background/history of racing (unlike Kip) .... Any thoughts on this Race detective?

and Fell Runner wrote:

I don't buy the brother theory .... What's his motive? No glory for him and potentially gets his name dragged through the mud if exposed.

This is a fair question and one which requires speculation into the psyche of people, a much different task than trying to piece together the evidence puzzle. "havent read the whole thread" offered some insight into this in his two posts above which I thought seemed reasonable.

Maybe it was just to help his brother play a 'grown-up' prank of sorts and enjoy some satisfaction of seeing how much they could get away with. Also a chance to travel together (perhaps with Kip paying all the expenses) and have some fun along the way. And to experience some of the excitement of participating in races across the country for short periods of time without having to invest too much work. And although there was some taking on of risk, it was not nearly as much risk as Kip was taking on. Perhaps this taking on of risk is part of the thrill of why people cheat and help others cheat.

Maybe the reasons from both brothers will eventually come out. Explaining the motivation for all of this is their story alone to tell.
Kevin52
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but 1 and only 1 thread 11/1/2011 12:43AM - in reply to Race detective Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Race detective wrote:
That being said, in my morning posts, I gave the evidence which shows both Kip and Kurt at the same race with images without sunglasses on their faces, where you can clearly see that these are two different people. Go back to my post at the bottom of p. 114, open up both links of photos from the 2009 Sarasota Half marathon, compare the photos, and then look up the image of Kurt from the 2007 article I directed readers to. I can't prove it is Kurt vs. some third person in the other races, but in this Sarasota race, Kurt was helping Kip cheat the race, and if he did it this once, it is likely this wasn't the only time.


Certainly it is possible but here's where one big problem with your theory is, your proof doesn't hold up.

No way you can determine from those photos that that is two different people. The resolution is too low, one is a flash shot and very underexposed, the other is a high ISO shot and grainy, both are low resolution proofs. To me it looks like it is most likely the same person and I look at a lot of photo files. Photos of the same person can look very different depending on conditions, especially running shots with different photographers and gear.
They be hatin'
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but 1 and only 1 thread 11/1/2011 1:05AM - in reply to Kevin52 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I happen to know for a fact that one of you crusaders is a registered sex offender. How bad is what Kip has done when compared to you?
kirkaz
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but 1 and only 1 thread 11/1/2011 1:27AM - in reply to They be hatin' Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
They be hatin' wrote:

I happen to know for a fact that one of you crusaders is a registered sex offender. How bad is what Kip has done when compared to you?


Kip, go to sleep buddy.
Fell Runner
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but 1 and only 1 thread 11/1/2011 2:46AM - in reply to They be hatin' Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
They be hatin' wrote:

I happen to know for a fact that one of you crusaders is a registered sex offender. How bad is what Kip has done when compared to you?


Ok Kip name names and deeds.

Back to the brothers theory, am I correct in thinking that people are saying that the lack of mid race photos is explained by there being two of them?
I struggle with this.
dumb questioner
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but 1 and only 1 thread 11/1/2011 5:21AM - in reply to Fell Runner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Ok, dumb question, I think, but if I said to a race organization that I'd lost my chip, would they send me another one with the same rfid code? That could explain second chips for the hard-to-cut races.

And do you think any of the "cautious" RDs (ie, the ones that suspect but were unwilling to DQ, like Charlotte) would be willing to re-open a DQ discussion based on the fact that they've got Kip crossing the start line (or the finish line, in the case of Charlotte) without showing his race number? (They could connect the dots by comparing the timestamp on the start picture and Kip's chip start time to firmly establish that it was Kip in the dark baggy clothes.) It seems kinda like getting Al Capone for tax evasion, but...
Horacio
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but 1 and only 1 thread 11/1/2011 5:35AM - in reply to dumb questioner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
The whole brother theory just doesn't hold up.

I know having an accomplice, especially his brother involved in this makes it a "sexy" story, but there isn't one shred of evidence that this took place.
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