I was reading an article today on the controversy surrounding the 2012 OG marathon course.
One thing that i wondered is, "Would it be possible to run the original 1908 course?" It's that course that gave us the 26 mile 385 yard distance as it had to be changed to start at Windsor Castle.
I guess a lot has changed in the last 102 years. Any Londoners out there?
You can read more about the course on wikipedia.
The Olympic Marathon should finish in Olympic Stadium. I think I'm reading that this isn't the plan. That's not a good thing. If anyone wonders why, then check the youtube video of Kerryn Mccann finishing the Commonwealth Marathon.
Short answer: yes, it would be possible.
Problems: White City Stadium no longer exists - if you were to stay absolutely true to the route, it would finish in the BBC car park. The other issue is accomodating the media - in 1908 they didn't have to worry about TV trucks, etc., but the roads of the original route won't accomodate that facet of the modern Games, so we wouldn't be able to watch on TV.
The biggest problem for either the original route, or any route which finishes in the new stadium, is that they both run through very shitty parts of London - if, as they keep telling us, these Games are a 'showcase', neither route is going to showcase anything worth seeing.
so the stadium is a crappy part of the city? or the whole city is blighted and they can't figure out a decent route to avoid all of it? so what if they run through one rough section. spruce it up. LA did for the '84 Games that were held in the west adams district by USC and that didn't turn out so bad. and joan benoit got to experience an olympic gold stadium finish. that was pretty sweet and glorious.
only me wrote:
Short answer: yes, it would be possible.
Problems: White City Stadium no longer exists - if you were to stay absolutely true to the route, it would finish in the BBC car park. The other issue is accomodating the media - in 1908 they didn't have to worry about TV trucks, etc., but the roads of the original route won't accomodate that facet of the modern Games, so we wouldn't be able to watch on TV.
The biggest problem for either the original route, or any route which finishes in the new stadium, is that they both run through very shitty parts of London - if, as they keep telling us, these Games are a 'showcase', neither route is going to showcase anything worth seeing.
Anyone who witnessed the Berlin world champs marathon will tell you what a great experience it was to witness a marathon live. You really understand it as a race and actually enjoy it rather than seeing someone once.
The amount Londoners are spending on the games we reserved the right to use this race to advertise our city to the world in the best way possible. Sprucing up certain areas with banners is possible but how about using this opportunity to create the most scenic exciting route possible?
There is also a serious question regarding logistics with the roads they have to use. Remember Beijing marathon when they took the last 2miles (est.) off course and no members of the public could see it live. We all know Olympic marathons finish in the stadium to maximise revenue on a crappy athletics day so as a marathon fan it is great to see the marathon take centre stage as a road race (similar to Athens).
Apart from the whole "we always do it this way" saga give this route a chance and I promise millions will pack the course for the marathon and I also suspect the race walks (not that Im really interested!).
The stories of changing the route because an area is ugly is being fabricated by this area. For the sport holding the marathon as a stand alone road race is better for the sport rather than another distance event. London set the precedent for the original marathon distance in 1908, let us set a new precedent in 2012 by liberating the event for road racing fans!
Not sure if this is right!
Yes, a lot has changed in London in the last 102 years - just as I assume it has in such places as New York and Los Angeles.
I’m afraid the idea of running the 1908 course is totally impractical in 2012.
I can’t imagine either the competitors, the spectators, the media circus, or those billions viewing worldwide would thank the organisers for coming up with running the course as is exists today.
Every city wants to show off it’s best features for a worldwide TV audience - and the English would be totally mortified featuring that dull, drab area of the capitol.
A flavour of how it all came about in the first place:
“As Desborough and King Edward toyed with the idea of the Games coming to London, many wondered how to produce a memorable echo of the race from Marathon to Athens. Runnymede, perhaps, might be the English equivalent of Marathon, dripping with history and tradition? Or nearby Windsor, home of the great castle, could offer the right distance?
The task of masterminding the route was given to Jack Andrew, the honorary secretary of the Polytechnic Harriers and a representative on the AAA committee, and a series of trial races were run. On April 25, 1908, there was a trial from Windsor to Wembley which clearly carried more significance than any previous rehearsal, both for the distance and the route. It started in the Long Walk of Windsor Park. The end of the first mile was on Barnespool Bridge, where the only surviving marker from the 1908 Olympic race still tells you that there are 25 miles to go.
The programme that day states: “It is hoped that the King will graciously consent to the start being made from the terrace of the historic Castle, in which event the distance will be about 26 miles to the edge of the Stadium track.” That hope became reality and on July 24 the press noted that: “The actual starting point for today's race is just below the East Terrace, Windsor Castle, near the bronze figure of Dako (Queen Victoria's favourite dog, a Scottish terrier) who was buried there.” For the Royal Family the prospect of letting the children of the Princess of Wales see the start of the marathon in the castle grounds must have been virtually irresistible.
The marathon was always planned to finish close to the Royal Box, and to bring the runners into the stadium would add another 385 yards on the cinder track.
The course took in cobblestones and dirt and dusty tracks but the measurement of the 26 miles 385 yards had been done thoroughly, with Andrew and his surveyors using wheels and Ordnance Survey maps to check the distance. However, the change in the starting location - the move from the Long Walk to the Eastern Terrace of the castle - may have introduced yet another twist into the debate about the distance.
John Disley, the co-founder with Chris Brasher of today's London Marathon, believes that when the start was moved the accuracy of the earlier measurement of the course was jeopardised. He reckons the organisers may have got their calculations wrong.
By using maps and contemporary photographs Disley used 21st-century methods of remeasuring that first mile to Barnespool Bridge. His conclusion is that the first mile - and hence the marathon course - was 174 yards (159m) short.
For the next two Olympics the distance continued to vary but the “London distance” was officially adopted in 1921.
The “London distance” may have seemed crazy, almost accidentally arrived at. But what guaranteed it would live on and become the standard for future marathons was the frenzy that surrounded the 1908 finish where the Italian, Dorando Pietri, collapsed five times on the track, was put back on his feet but disqualified for receiving assistance.
The man who finished 32 seconds behind him, Johnny Hayes, of the United States, was awarded the gold medal, while Dorando collected a gold cup from the hands of Queen Alexandra.
The controversial finish, and the headlines, pictures and flickering film of the drama, stamped on this race for decades its image as a “man-killer” event. After the struggle of 1908, the marathon story was far too good to end at the tape.”
It would be interesting to see the original course.
Most people think that today's marathon distance is equal to the distance from Marathon to Athens.
Few know that the official marathon distance is equal to the 1908 London course.
That distance was made official in 1921 and it is a completely subjective choice of distance.
I think it might be better if you visited the East End of London BEFORE making stupid comments.
only me wrote:
I think it might be better if you visited the East End of London BEFORE making stupid comments.
Brilliant! Winning the Olympics and running the marathon through the east end is like purchasing the rights to cover a famous song and releasing it on a tape player!
shouldn't be too hard to make a great course using the main sites, parliament, Big Ben, the Thames, palaces, Hyde Park.
I wasn't sure exactly where some of these things were, but roughly a course like this would be good:
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=4161591
Start at Wimbledon, end with a lap around Hyde Park, run along the Thames, Fleet Street, Victoria.
It is my understanding that the new course will be 3 laps, starting and finishing on the Mall. It will be better for spectators to come out, because everyone will get to see a lot of the race, and there be fewer "dead" spots.
jjjjjjj wrote:
shouldn't be too hard to make a great course using the main sites, parliament, Big Ben, the Thames, palaces, Hyde Park.
I wasn't sure exactly where some of these things were, but roughly a course like this would be good:
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=4161591Start at Wimbledon, end with a lap around Hyde Park, run along the Thames, Fleet Street, Victoria.
Most of these are covered in the route except Wimbledon. Not sure why you would want to start it there?
Rather than honoring the old course, it would be nice if in the ceremonies they honored some of the old British Olympic marathon runners, a surprising number of whom are still alive. I believe those still with us include: Stan Cox (92, 1952 Oly. marathon), Arthur Keily (89, 1960 Oly. marathon), Harry Hicks (85, 1956 Oly. marathon), Ron Clark (80, 1956 Oly. Marathon), Basil Heatley (76, 1964 Oly. marathon-silver medal behind only Bikila), Jim Hogan (76, 1964 and 1968 Oly. marathon--actually Irish but ran for UK), Brian Kilby (72, 1960 and 1964 Oly. marathon), Ron Hill (72, 1964, 1968 and 1972 Oly. marathon).
It's all work in progress.
But I can tell you, it will be spectacular!
David Katz
Road Course Measurer
2012 Olympic Games - London
rojo, do any of the above posters get a thank you for their replies?
Okay, okay. I'll see what I can do about moving the Olympic Stadium. We'll throw it up on a few barges and haul it across the ol' Thames.
Now I should be able to pull some strings, but I cannot promise anything.
Tony Blair
Prime Minister (1997 - 2007)
Labour Party
I assume Jonesey doesn't qualify as old!!! He'd be my vote for runninng the Olympic Torch into the stadium.
Looking at the map, the best alternative to White Stadium would be to use most of that historic course, but have the final run-up to the finish run straight down Abbey Road, finishing just past The Beatles' recording studio, where he crosswalk would make for a suitable finish line.