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| Impossible Dream |
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Just a quick update. I've essentially been following Euro's suggested plan. It's a slog this summer with the heavy work load. I'm going to keep at it, but I suspect they'll be nothing exciting to report for a little while as I get back into the groove and also past this busy time at work. |
| eurodonkey |
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Just a little bump to see how you're getting on... Got back from 2 weeks visiting relatives around Europe. I kept training, with some good hill and road sessions, but probably not as well as I would have at home - down to 50mpw, and the extra travel/beers/barbecues/coffees/cakes necessitated by hosts put a couple of pounds on. So I'm going to try REALLY hard to lose that and train hard from now until Aug 13th, when my 'second season' of track races kicks off for about 3 weeks. By the way, on vacation I read a particularly entertaining book: "The Four Hour Body" by Tim Ferriss. He goes through just about everything that's fashionable among athletes around the world in terms of gaining strength, losing fat, gaining speed - material for endless discussion similar to ones we already had. If anyone else can recommend any other good reads, I have another week of travels coming up and some gaps to fill in my kindle ;-) |
| Fgrimes |
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This thread is like a giant, flashing, neon sign warning you to avoid doing too much, too fast, too soon. Middle aged man trains like a madman, puts up some decent numbers for a bit, then blows up spectacularly. Film at 11? |
| eurodonkey |
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Read it again. |
| Impossible Dream |
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Euro, Thanks for asking. It seems that when I was getting up to running further than 4 miles in recent weeks, my left achilles was getting sore. So, with an abundance of caution, I'm backing off, focusing on cardio fitness on the elliptical this week and calf raises. Further positive news, work is starting to get back to normal just this week. I must admit with all the 10-12 hour work days over the past 2 months, some bad living habits had creeped back into my life. This week, I'm focused on getting back into healthy habits for eating and sleeping. I'm feeling good about my prospects. I'm relatively fit, not necessarily running fit and I've maintained a good attitude towards the process even if my progress has stalled and/or regressed a bit. Once I'm back and fully healthy, I realize my baseline is in a tremendously different spot than where it was when I started this thread. As to the "neon, flashing sign" guy, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But I would respectfully disagree. Runners of all ages, ability levels and training volumes get injured. It just happens. Achilles injuries, if you've read any thing on the topic, are particularly tough to deal with. I'm dealing with mine and I'll be ready to write a happy ending to this novel, which is in about chapter 4 of about 12 right now. Peace all. |
| armchair coach |
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Hey there Impossible Dream. It has been a long, long time since I contributed to this thread! Page 2 was where I chimed in. First of all, congratulations on becoming a fitter (and lighter) human being. I am sure that aspect of your journey has got to bring some feeling of satisfaction, even if the running is not quite where you'd like it to be. I posted, and continue to post, under the handle armchair, because i have gone through the same things as you. When I shared my two cents back in November I was at the tail end of my most recent comeback. One sidelined by, you guessed it, achilles trouble. I went from zero to one hour a day of running with some "quality" sprinkled in for good measure. First the right achilles started, and then the left. I can tell you in hindsight, that the only thing that eventually worked for me was to stop running. I just told myself that I was no longer a runner and focused on riding a bike a little bit, and a lot of strength training and some mobility work. I even stayed away from Letsrun for a whole 6 months ! This past June I went for a run (if you can call it that) for 20 minutes around my neighborhood and had no symptoms whatsoever. About a week later, i went for another. Now, I'm up to maybe a run every 2 or 3 days or so. All 20 to 30 minutes, and really, really easy and with no problems. I'm still not a runner though ; ) Self-delusion ain't always bad, you know. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I think you're on the right track. Get yourself fit, lean and strong and then down the road, maybe then you can start sneaking in some real training. I'm not saying you should do exactly what I'm doing, but just thought I'd share my experience. BTW - I think Euro or PM (not sure, sorry guys) chimed in at one point and described achilles tendon problems as more a symptom than the actual problem, and that is 100% right. Get your calves, soleus and feet supple and loose and you'll place less of a load on that tendon. Tight, knotted and junky soft tissue is the root. |
| eurodonkey |
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Armchair coach, welcome back to running! ID, I hope you've had a successful summer business-wise after all that hard work. Once you've had an easy (work) week or two and have some surplus energy, I have one more thing you may want to play with or look into. I just had a vacation with plenty of time to read, and having covered just about everything I could find on running, decided to read up on diet and strength training (in between doses of suitably lowbrow beach fiction, of course...). Of all the things I came across, perhaps the best one is Dan John, a former Olympic discus thrower who still ranks nationally in his 40s, and is also a track and field coach based near you in Draper, Utah. www.danjohn.net Olympic lifting is all about power and explosiveness. It's what sprinters, jumpers and throwers do and every track coach in the UK recommends, even though few learn the lifts. It does not bulk you up. What I didn't realise until now is how little time it takes or how to structure the schedules. Read his little e-book, "From the ground up" (link on right side of web page). Although he comes from a different event group, his general outlook on life is an inspiration and there is a vast amount in there that would chime with a runner. And I think there's a lot to be picked up for any of us when we are in a phase that doesn't permit high mileage running. If you had to spend, say, 6 months doing low mileage and conditioning, I think he has the approach to finish up stronger and leaner than ever before with a minimum time commitment. |
| VF Runner |
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ID - Your positive mental attitude is why I know you will get to where you are going. Keep it up. I think this thought from ac is a good one to remember.
Injuries often show up at the weakest (or most vulnerable) link of a chain, even though the cause turns out to be elsewhere. As much focused work as you were doing on your achilles, they should have been almost bulletproof. Look for any other issues/imbalances, even if they seem like they might be completely unrelated and work on them. As for me, the goal I mentioned a page back is a thing of the past. 2 weekends ago I ran 101.47 miles in 21:16 so it's back to short stuff. Now on to the next challenge. I Dug out all of my old PR's and made a list - time to see if I can start to change any of those numbers. |
| Clell Adams |
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I'm interested to see more on this thread. |
| eurodonkey |
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Just checking in to see how everyone is doing. ID, are you running again yet? Anyone else been training well or racing this summer? I had a much-interrupted track season with about 6 weeks of travel, being busy at work and family activities. Looking back, the only worthwhile achievements have been that 5000m in May, and a 10:07 steeple at beginning of July. Running on hard surfaces while away hurt my knees, and cutting back due to the above cut my stamina a bit, but it's settling down again now after a week back on nice soft grass. I'm really hoping I can re-sharpen and get into an open track meeting somewhere before the season ends (Sep 10th around here) but not expecting that much if I do. |
| VF Runner |
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Figured I would bump this and maybe get it going again. ID and I have the same goal (5k PR post 40) but different histories. ID was faster (15:30? vs. 16:23) and more injury prone. I ran a marathon pr worth about 2:50 this spring and am coming off of 101 miles in 21+ hours. The three weeks before/after the ultra seem to have left me lacking fitness, but I do have some decent turnover right now. Last nights workout was a prime example. 3200/1600/800/800 all with full recovery. 11:42 (5:48,5:54 comfortable through about 4 1/2 laps then started fading) 5:42 (Tough 3rd lap, but finished well) 2:34, 2:32 (started behind a buddy to use as a rabbit). I have a 10k planned Sept 18, and after that I'll be looking for 5k's to race. Any thoughts from the contributors to this thread? |
| eurodonkey |
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Hi, VF. Yes, let's keep this going. That's a good workout. Any time you are banging out miles in under 6min is good and I reckon you could have gone under 18:00 with a few people around you in that session. Can you post a bit more about your weekly routine, available time to train etc and we can kick it around? As for me, my season kind of fizzled after that 5k in May. I was expecting to get faster but life kind of slapped me in the face - work, kids exams, school events, travel all getting in the way of races, or (worse) meaning that I arrived at the start line mentally fried. I managed to keep up some very hard solo sessions and average 50-60mpw, and am hoping to squeeze in a 1500m tomorrow and maybe one or two more before the season ends. Half of me is saying "take a break and start again", half wants to find ever more obscure races in September. I'll see tomorrow - my best as a Master is 4:15 so if I do worse than that it's time for a break. |
| VF Runner |
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Thanks Euro. I feel that same dilema - break and base vs. carry on with what you've got. The fact that I was able to close with that 800 leads me to believe I should push on. Typical week ends up w/ 6-7 days running (sometimes doubles) for 50-75 mpw (max ever was 86), tuesday pm. tends to be a track workout, sunday long runs and ideally Thursday or Friday includes something harder (often a tempo or just a harder mid range run). Time isn't too much of a factor (especially once my daughter starts school up in about a week.) I am one of those traditional runners that would rather go for a run or do nothing instead of ancillary stuff. Core/strength work has been a big part of the discussion in this thread, and I know that is part of where I need to start. Good luck with that 1500 by the way. Hope it goes well. |
| eurodonkey |
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OK, the hand-timing had it at 4:15.5, one tenth faster than my masters' PB two years ago. I have to wait and see as the electronic system wasn't behaving (and might be slower). Either way I am two years older now so it's a 90.12% age grade, and therefore the first time I ever beat my youthful marks! Regrettably anybody decent is off at league matches today. I was lucky that one newbie went off way too fast and I had someone to follow for 600m, then I was out on my own. Faded a bit, then got in a 65 last lap, more than 10sec clear of anyone else. Where are the youth of today when you need them? I have no doubt that with people to chase, I could squeeze another 3sec out, so I'll probably hang in there looking for end-of-season meetings for a bit longer. But hey, a win's a win, and the fridge is full of cold beer! |
| VF Runner |
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Most excellent Euro! Enjoy your well earned rewards from that fridge. I, on the other hand, was less than thrilled with how my "tempo" run felt this am. Felt harder, but was 2 min's slower than I can usually run that 5 mi. loop. I'm blaming it on not having had anything to eat and being up too late watching the end of the WC women's marathon. On the plus side, I did the tiniest bit of supplemental stuff after my run. Trying to start good habits. |
| eurodonkey |
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It's a lot harder to make suggestions for you than it was for ID as he has some very specific situations and long term goals. To be honest your weekly routine is pretty much exactly what I try for...two good quality sessions, well spaced out, with a decent amount of easier running in between. So I guess it comes down to trying to pick the right two sessions. Do you have any sort of sessions planned out, or are you picking them by feel? IMHO there's huge benefit to setting a plan for 6 weeks or so and repeating/evolving the sessions a bit. On the 'ancillary stuff', the key question is whether there are any particular weaknesses or niggles we could address in just a few weeks without taking anything away from what you are doing now. Any idea what your basic speed is like? e.g. what do you think you could do for a 200? |
| eurodonkey |
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BTW, I presume you've read Pete Magill's stuff on 5k training? Hard to argue with it... http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=19258 |
| VF Runner |
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Can't say for sure if I've read that article. Seeing as how hurricane Irene may cause me to need some reading by candlelight material, it's printed now. Unlike my previous marathons, I think I've been taking the 5K for granted and haven't lined out a specific training plan. As far as the 200 ... as of earlier in the summer I finished a workout with a 30 in flats. That's literally the fastest 200 I've ever logged in my training life and I have never raced one ever. (I did split 59 in a few 4x400's in HS though). If we assume I could go 28 fresher and all out (seems reasonable) and we are to trust MacMillan than theoretically I'm right in line for mid 16:20's. |
| PhysMech |
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Euro, congrats on your excellent 1500! VF, 100+ miles in less than 22 hours - I guess all endurance discussions should pass through you from now on! It's good to see some positive things happening with the contributors. Speaking of positive things, have you all watched Morgan Uceny lately? I mean, beyond the results, which have been great. IMO, there are some truly great things happening there that would be difficult to optimize further. Her spine angle is perfect and doesn't change at all during the race, even during the final sprint. Also, I sort of had a hard time describing how the arm motion should be "connected" to the body rotation properly, but watching Morgan describes the concept perfectly. Leg motions all appear very very optimal and seem to be slightly improved over previous seasons. This seems to lead to that impressive final sprint, which just looks like a quicker and faster turnover version of the same stride she uses through the whole race. This is all just very impressive to me - that so many mechanical elements are all happening in the same athlete. Hope she does well at worlds - Jamal should have her hands full! Euro, Jenny Meadows also seems to have a lot of good things happening this year and I'm sure you are wishing the best for her at worlds. |
| eurodonkey |
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That's pretty good leg speed and if you're close to lifetime best shape you should be proud. I don't think you can extrapolate all the way from 200 to 5000 pace accurately, but it's ample to run 16:20. The key point is that you should be able to run very relaxed at 39sec (target 5000 pace). Couple more questions... - Is it easy to get to a track? - Do you have trails to run on or is it mostly roads? - You're in Florida, aren't you? Any hills nearby, even a little one such as a highway on-ramp? - Any psychological preferences for doing sessions 'by feel', or for measuring them and feeling you're shaving off a few seconds each week? - Andy |