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| Impossible Dream |
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I just thought that I would note that since my little epiphany the other day about what I need to be doing in my training, I have just felt a lot better and just much more enthusiastic towards the whole process and I'm feeling 100% better. I think my attitude is helping me heal quicker also, seriously. My right ankle isn't really bothering me at all and my left is feeling better every day. |
| Impossible Dream |
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Feeling more enthusiastic towards my goals than ever. Having a clear purpose has really cleared the cobwebs and has put me on a mission to get healthy and very fit. My right Achilles symptoms are gone as best I can tell. The left is coming along. I've been doing elliptical, TM hiking, strength and core work up to 2 hours per day cumulatively. My diet is even on the right track. Realistically, I should take another week off from running. I'll play that by feel. If I wake up and it's feeling really good I'll get in a little tester jog. |
| eurodonkey |
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Just a little tidbit to motivate you... I just chaired an endurance coaching panel with two of our former National XC champions. Julian Goater (www.feelgood-factors.com) told a story about a nasty ankle injury, almost broken, where he was sent to a military rehab centre that took physio seriously. He spent about 6 weeks doing large amounts of non-running conditioning for hours every day. Then he started to run again, and 6 weeks later was in the England team at the World Cross. So, keeping fit while injured definitely helps. Another good moment: we were talking about how to motivate youngsters to do cross country when you turn up to a race, half the people there are over 40, and then they beat you ;-) -- I think I'm coming out of my 'mad month' at work. Projects are starting to go live, kids exams and the school play are over, and I'm getting a bit more sleep and starting to feel perky again. Tomorrow night is my first group track session since March, and I sense some 1500s in my near future - I can't wait! It all comes a bit too late - I ran the Southern Counties 5000m last Saturday, off very poor preparation, and dropped back 12sec to 15:48 (albeit in heavy winds). If my work pileup hadn't happened this would have been my peak 5000 and I'm not sure where I'll find another with a big bunch of faster guys to chase. But it was really good fun to be at a serious championship-style meeting with all the paraphernalia (ready room, doping control etc), and it reminded me how massively lucky we are to be able to race at all. |
| VF Runner |
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Ahhh to be fast. I know you weren't aiming it at me Euro, and I'm not sure if I find it motivating or discouraging. Your "...off very poor preparation, and dropped back 12sec to 15:48..." would be about a 30 second lifetime PR for me. I'm working on it though. Miles have been staying around 70, but I'm starting to get back to some speedwork, so maybe some day. Tomorrows workout I'm planning sets of 400/200/200 with 200 rec. Full recovery between sets and hoping for 75/36 or so. Need to up my commitment to core and strength if I ever want to get really fast though. ID - Hope things are progressing. |
| Impossible Dream |
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Ankles feeling pretty good. Trying a little tester jog tonight. Work is still nuts! |
| eurodonkey |
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Sorry - it was 12sec slower than a month ago, though, which I'd mentioned here recently. I promise you I feel exactly the same way when Pete Magill pops out those 14:45s aged 49 - he would have won the race I was in outright and frightened the hell out of the youth of today! |
| VF Runner |
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ID - Glad to hear it. Maybe the crazy work schedule is fortunate as it may be helping to keep you from being able to rush back too quickly. It's all good Euro - no need to apologize. Actually, seeing anyone do well in their 40's is motivating. It's just more reassurance that, yes, it can be done. People like Pete Magill, Ed Whitlock, Norm Green back in his day - they are just amazing talents and what they are/were able to do shouldn't be counted against the rest of us mere mortals. |
| eurodonkey |
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Just checking in to see if everyone's OK and keep the thread going. My work-and-lifestyle-crunch has somewhat receded - Kid #1 is off on a school trip, and the main challenge now is just to prevent the numerous school fairs, parents evenings and general 'barbecue season' - which is admittedly a lot of fun - from disrupting training and piling on the pounds! I finally had two nights at the track this week under my coach's watchful eye. It seems what I gained at 5k pace is not automatically translating to faster 1500s - in fact my form has gone to pieces, overstriding and heel-striking even when sprinting. Best guess yet is that I was doing long reps on road and grass at 5k-10k-tempo pace, while everyone else was on the track once a week staying in touch with their basic speed all winter. I think I'll need a good month of regular speedwork now to get sharp.
If, by "get really fast", you mean a decent 200/400 ability (for our ages), I beg to differ with the above. They help but they aren't the main thing. My core and strength reached new levels this last winter but it hasn't made me sprint faster. In fact, last year my form and leg speed were better, off less training and weaker legs. The difference was that I was on the track once most weeks. I think the key thing is to actually practice running fast with good form on a regular basis (although not if your achilles hurts!). Look at Bolt - he only hit the weights this winter and he is picking up very average weights (which, scarily, suggests potential for improvement!) . IMHO your workout above is the right kind of thing; 200s with 200 jog are enough to try to run fast but with good relaxed form. Much better to run at 85-95% top speed with good form than to try for 100% and fall apart (as happens when I try to hang with the teenagers!). But it may take half a dozen such sessions to feel the benefits. ID, how's it going? Done any jogging this week? |
| VFRunner |
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By "really fast" I kind of mean doing something along the lines of ID's whole rationale for starting this thread - 5k PR after 40. For me that would mean getting down to 16:20 (although right now I'd be happy with sub 17). Last time I was under 17 was about 7-8 years ago and at the time I had a job that was much more physical and was in multi-story buildings (and I hate waiting for elevators) so I was always running up stairs. By getting stronger, I really just mean replacing some of the whole body strength I had when I was using it more. Calf raises, single leg squats, push/pull/sit ups, planks ... that kind of stuff just to round out my physical conditioning. I've never been a weight lifter/gym rat type, so I don't mean that type of strength. Funny you should mention the "falling apart" at 100%. The workout I mentioned a few posts above went really well (despite feeling very flat heading into it) and I decided I really wanted the last 200's time to start with a 2. Pushing towards the line I definitely noticed that my arms and upper body were out of sync with my legs and I probably looked like I was flailing a bit. Managed a 30.09 to end the workout. Keep in mind, 58.9 (as a relay split) is the fastest I've ever run a 1/4 in my life. All of a sudden I'm thinking that 5k post 40 PR may be possible for me. |
| Impossible Dream |
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ID, how's it going? Done any jogging this week?[/quote] Its been a tough week. Work has just been frankly overwhelming with 12 hour days. It kind of all caught up to me and so I've been "nice" to myself a little bit and backed off on the work outs. The normal ebb and flow of our industry suggests we're in for some relief soon from the long days, which is good. I'm pushing so hard and my staff has been working hard also that we're all starting to wear down. One gal that works for me has been nursing a sore throat and won't take time off because she knows how hard that is on the rest of the staff. I must admit that I've also been feeling a little guilty neglecting my parental duties due to my work load. My wife has been great though. Very supportive. I did get in an easy 2+ mile jog on the treadmill on Monday. My right achilles felt perfect, as if I'm completely healed. The left was not painful, just a bit tight. There was some slight residual soreness the next day, so I've got a little ways to go with that one, but I expect to resume at least every other day runs starting this weekend. I think I'm ready for that. Thanks for checking in. Glad to hear your schedule has regained some sanity and that you're getting in some track sessions. Have a great weekend everyone. |
| eurodonkey |
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VF, that's some good wheels you have there! I see a 200 time in training as the most useful index of your strength, biomechanics, speed etc. Bringing it down a bit each summer at some point is a key target. All the other sessions will feel easier if you have a bit more 'speed reserve'. A peak 5k requires training under-distance and over-distance in the runup to the race. I can promise that if you do something like that every couple of weeks, the times will drop -maybe even half a second each session. Even if doing longer sessions, stopping with a bit in the tank, having a good long rest, then doing 3-4x200 or 150 helps to build speed (with all the rest you need). No point tiring your legs with gym work when you have the option to run fast on the track - that's for winter. |
| eurodonkey |
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Hang in there. I presume at some point soon most people will have booked their summer vacations and it will calm down, and then your energy will come flooding back... |
| VF Runner |
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Had to go way to many pages to find this thread, so I'll update it with what I've been up to. The immediate goal is 100 miles in 24 hours, but it's really to late for training advice for that. I'm enjoying finding some speed again so I think I'm definitely going to follow ID's footsteps and go after some of my HS PR's. I don't have the list with me but I'll put it up soon so you guys can give your input about how and which ones to attack. Track went well again yesterday. It was 6x600/300 rec this week. 1:58,:58,:57,:55,:53,:49. This time last year I would have been struggling to run more than a couple of 400's with 400 rec in 75-76, and that would have been borderline out of control. Even the 1:49 felt very controlled last night. Hope everyone else is well, even if they are busy. |
| eurodonkey |
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I sincerely hope that 100 miles is on a bicycle ;-) Nice work, especially the last rep. Getting faster is a great feeling. News at this end: I am sitting here contemplating sensations I haven't felt in years, resulting from the all-out 700-600-450-350 with ten minute rests that coach inflicted on my yesterday. Misjudged the pace horribly on the 700 and practically crawled home! I just got the call-up for a league match on Saturday (all our fit youngsters seem to have excuses), and somehow negotiated a day off family duties. I am looking forward to a full day on the team minibus, a steeplechase against young fit people, and then the inevitable drawing of straws for who has to double up in the 5000 when somebody didn't show. It'll be just like college all over again! |
| Impossible Dream |
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I thought I would check in and get this thread back on track. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but we've continued our busy streak at work and it has been an obstacle to my training a bit, but I'm seeing a light at the end of the tunnel both in my work load and health wise. I think next week I can reasonably resume daily running, with the caveat that I'll skip days if my recovering achilles need a day off now and then. I'm interested now in resurrecting the original purpose that I started this thread and thats a comprehensive approach to my training with respect to the stated goals of a lifetime personal best by November 2012. Comprehensive equally "Soup to Nuts". To reacquaint folks to my current status, I'm 41 years old. I've lost about 20 lbs since this thread was started and 50 lbs since I decided to get fit in December 2009. Since really committing to my stated goals last November I was able to progess to the point where I was running sub 6 minute mile pace for a 1/2 marathon race in mid April off base mileage and tempo runs. Unfortunately, I developed achilles tendonitis in first my right ankle and more recently in my left ankle. 2 weeks ago, I completed a 5k in 18:46. I would classify myself as relatively fit right now, but definitely not in any kind of competitive runnning shape. So, if my friend Eurodonkey or any one else wants to take a crack at recommending a complete regiment, I would be most grateful. I think given my penchant for an over enthusiastic approach I would surely benefit from someone else calling the shots, executing the plan and reporting the results. My only race plans for now are a December marathon, which for some reason I feel like I want to do well in, but not at the expense of my larger goals, of course. Thanks in advance!! |
| Impossible Dream |
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continuing my habit of verbosity :), I failed to add a couple of key points. It looks like in July I'll be able to scrap out about 90 minutes of training time in the am hours (between 5 and 7 am local time) and about 60 minutes in the evening (between 8:30 pm and 10 pm local). Towards the end of the month I may have a few days where I can do some stuff in the afternoon after 5:30 pm. Starting in August, I'll likely be able to take up to 45 minutes 2 or 3 times a week during my lunch hour at work to do what ever supplementary training won't fit into the schedule listed in the previous paragraph. |
| VF Runner |
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Glad to hear you are coming back ID. The one specific suggestion I will make it to try to keep a very accurate record of training/life/injury details. Since you never did nail down an exact cause of the troubles you'll want to have good data to refer back to if it flares up again. I'll leave the primary training advice to those more qualified. I will say it seems like you were making excellent progress before so I wouldn't throw away everything you were doing. An interesting thought for masters runners from Running Times recently - move from a 7 day training cycle to a 10 day cycle. This just gives a bit more time for the body to recover from hard efforts, ergo, less likely to break down. Interesting personal note: today's 10 mile run leaves me at 1501 at the halfway point of the year. |
| eurodonkey |
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Welcome back! My first thought is that we shouldn't set any date-based schedules until we know for sure that your Achilles is comfortable with running daily. Rather than a schedule, we need a set of rules for 'easing in'. This sounds really boring but I would start the way you did originally: an easy morning jog on the treadmill at a very gentle pace (8min). STRICTLY every other day at first e.g. Mon-Wed-Fri, and it's no problem if you miss a day. Start with no more than 2 miles of running. Combinations of walk/jog or hill-walk/jog are great if they ease the guilt at only doing 15min running or if your calf feels a little unsure in the first few. If you can repeat a distance OK, you can add a mile. So you might go 2-2-3, 3-4-4, 5-5-6 in the next 3 weeks if all goes well. If you repeat it but are tired, a little unsure about the achilles or whatever, either rest or repeat same level. There is always a degree of 'nervousness about re-injury, wondering if it's hurting or not etc, and only running regularly can allay this. If that sounds too tame, I was re-reading Harry Wilson's book (coach to Steve Ovett) and that's pretty much how they'd start after a month's end-of-season break. Can you fill us in on any conditioning or rehab you have/haven't been doing lately? Has that calf you've been raising grown into a cow yet? Maybe we can add in some low-impact circuits or leg strength work to give you a challenge for the off days or when there's nothing good on TV... Once we know you can do 40-50min runs we can think about filling in some of the other days, and doing some faster fun stuff to take advantage of the summer (strides, drills, trail runs, hills...). With kids and a park and track nearby, it would be a real shame not to make use of summer to improve the biomechanics a bit and have some fun. By the way, my morning runs tend to be 8 minute miles. It doesn't seem to have done any harm. |
| Quack |
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Indeed - welcome back, ID. With my own recent injury recovery, I've become a believer in Euro's advice with the slow mileage increase. Takes patience, but the mileage will creep up fast in retrospect, even though it's frustrating at the time. Give your body enough time between small increases to figure out if it's getting better, same, or worse at that mileage. Running similarish distances every day instead of trying to micro-periodize seems to make that easier -- the feedback is more consistent. I went from about 30 mpw on 3/27 to 75mpw on 6/19 this way and never felt like I was at risk of injuring myself worse. Notably -- and very differently from my usual pattern -- during this time my longest run other than a 1/2M race was 11 miles, about the same as my daily total from doubles. I had no training goal here other than getting my miles back up to a reasonable range and getting myself used to doing short speed/tempo stuff in SoM-style. It worked, and I'm feeling a *lot* stronger now. FWIW, I've had company on many of my recent a.m. runs, and have been doing them at about 9min miles (bit hilly, but probably 8:40 on the flats). I only do about 4mi in the am, and - same as Euro - doesn't seem to be hurting. Just makes the evening runs a little more zippy. Also has made it more tolerable to do an 8am run and a noon track workout. :) |
| Impossible Dream |
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That's solid Euro, thanks! You're right it does seem a bit tame, but its likely exactly what the doctor ordered. I have been doing what ever I can fit into my schedule lately, which has been mostly 45 minute sessions on the elliptical followed by calf raises. So far this week, I ran 2.5 on the TM on Sunday, 45min on the elliptical yesterday and a 3m run on bark chips this morning. I really didn't have any symptoms on the run this morning to speak of but I definitely feel a little soreness in my left ankle/calf today. I'll ice tonight. Quack, thanks for your example. Still super busy. I think the light at the end of the tunnel for work is 10 days out or so. |