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| Radical Ron. |
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Jumpin' on the thread here to slap folks on the back and contribute. Got inspired by the Eddylee Sub-4 thread everyone loved and started my path back to glory a few years ago. Now 39, soon to be 40 in July. Got my 1500m time down to 4:14 last year. Ran 4:32 indoor mile last January. Ran 4:17 1500m last month. Heading to Worlds in Sac to race 5000m and 1500m. Hope everyone is meeting their goals. Now, where's Jonesy? |
| eurodonkey |
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Ron, good to have you here. I was hoping to do the same in Sac but it didn't work out with family vacations and school trips, sadly. I'm going to find a 1500 soon and will try to keep pace with you remotely ;-) Tell us about your training at the moment... |
| Impossible Dream |
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Radical Ron, Welcome to the thread. Let me second the invitation for you to contribute to thread. Nothing earthshattering on the homefront here...I'm continuing to get healthier but probably not all the way there. I would guess I'm somewhere between 85 and 90%. Completed 27 miles last week in 5 sessions. Finally decided to take the restrictor plate off a little on my Saturday 6 miler by running the final 4 as a kind of impromptu progression. Finished at about 6:20 pace. My plan is to progress towards normal mileage the next couple of weeks. I'm definitely going to have a go at the June 11 5k. That will probably function as a fitness check and then we can evaluate and proceed from there. I'm hoping that I might get in 1 workout of a tempoish variety before then and also start some drills and some strides as well. |
| Quack |
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85% to 90% is way better than 10%. Glad to hear it! You might be amused to know that I've started to hate you, but in a very friendly way. See, after my half marathon side-stitch experience, I've decided I need to really be religious about my core work. So I'm back to doing a pretty good load of core work every other day. It turns out that I really don't like to do core work -- so every night after my pm run, I tell myself, "damnit. ID is doing his core work day in and day out. You (Quack) pride yourself on being obsessive, but this ID dude is being WAY better about managing all of the incidental aspects of his training. Do your damn core suff!". And then, somehow, my core stuff happens. So now I blame you for me having been wandering around with sore stomach muscles for the last week and a half. :-) (Just in case it doesn't come through the horrible communication medium that is text: Thank you for providing a good example to aspire to. I appreciate the motivation.) I'm settling in to a SoM-style couple of months. I think I'm finally fully recovered from the tendonitis, and now that surviving the HM is off the schedule, it's back to the plan. Which looks surprisingly similar to ID's at an earlier point -- focus on base building and raw speed for a bit, race a few 5ks, and re-evaluate in July or so. I've never run many doubles, so this week was kind of fun: 66 miles over 12 runs. No long run to speak of, but I did 10 miles on Friday running from Berkeley to Lake Anza and back in 1:23 (I like to think that the ~1500 feet of elevation gain over the course I took makes that a slightly more respectable pace than 8:19min/mi sounds on the surface). Calves are sore from all the hills I ran in the bay area, but they're recovering now that I'm back to my regular haunts. |
| Impossible Dream |
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Quack, As long as you hate me for a good reason I'm happy to be your object of despise. :) I hope no one is discouraged when I admit I had a tough last couple of days with the supplementary stuff. I was doing fine but about Wednesday of last week my 41 lbs 4 year old was begging me to carry him upstairs for bedtime and of course I was being stupid in how I picked him up and tweaked my lower back. That combined with some long exhausting work days making for an irregular work schedule zapped me for getting in my core stuff. I made up for it today though! 6 miles this morning followed by calf raises. Then I walked 9 holes of golf this afternoon. Then after dinner I got the whole family over to the track, where I did some jogging, some drills, some strides, a 200 m sprint ( ha) , and some more jogging. Back to the house I did more calf raises, stretching and the Pfitzinger core session. Busy day, but I feel great. Btw, the 200 m sprint was pretty comical. I AM SLOW!! 32 seconds. Aaargh. Ok, just to make myself feel better I'll throw out a few excuses,,, I was wearing my lunar glides and track pants, a dude on a bike and a dog made me drift out of my lane to avoid collisions and it was only and hour after dinner. I know I could run at least a 31. :) Have a great week everyone, back to busy, busy for me tomorrow. |
| VF Runner |
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^ +1 I'm still working on getting the auxiliary stuff hardwired into my training brain, but it's better than it was. I had to chuckle to myself about your 200 ID. After a brutal day in the heat Monday (6+ hours of mowing/yardwork followed by 13 miles in the heat of the day) I went into last nights track work pretty whooped. Peer pressure of my running group being there is the only thing that kept me from jogging back home. Instead it was 6x400 4x200 and I managed to finish with a .... 31. Keep plugging away on the recovery and stay healthy. |
| Impossible Dream |
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Well, I'm sad to say that things have taken a bit of a turn for the worse. Yesterday morning I stopped after about 400 meters because pain was in the 3 to 4 range in the achilles area and the side of my ankle and calf. Today I ran, but stopped after 3 miles when I realized I was probably going to make things worse. So, I'm icing now. I think at least a day or two of nothing that aggravates the area except for the calf raises and then a few days of elliptical or something. Any ideas? Obviously, I injected some pace back into my runs this week and it was just to much. Looks like smart money is on this not being remotely a quick fix. I'm a little discouraged right now to be honest, but I'll regain my wits and enthusiasm quickly. |
| Radical Ron. |
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I suggest finding somebody in your area that can do A.R.T. on your calf/Achilles. Also look into the http://grastontechnique.com/ Your body will heal, however, breaking up the scar tissue speeds it up and helps the problem from keep coming back. Training is going well here. Not too crazy about the heat/humidity that's moved into the midwest. Stay tuned. |
| VF Runner |
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That. Really. Really. Sucks! I really wish I had an "aha" type suggestion to clear things up, but it seems like you were doing all the right things already. Do you have specific sore/tender/swollen areas identifiable on the achilles? When I was fighting my heel, there was never any irritation of the achilles itself. I had tenderness/pain below the achilles on top of my heel bone. Pretty sure it was retro calcaneal bursitis. I still feel a bit of discomfort occasionally. I cut out a bit of the heel cup for a few months and that is a huge part of what got me running normally again. |
| eurodonkey |
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Sorry to hear this. Had you been massaging it regularly? If so, you would normally get some 'early warning' with tension increasing, especially if the calf feels tense too. I wouldn't be too worried; there is often a lot of 'fear of re-injury' somewhere in the neurons and one gets twinges as the training starts again. Take a day off if you want, but try to drop back to a pace and distance that doesn't bother it. I'm just wondering - the first time round you had a very, very steady buildup with slow running on treadmills for a couple of months before any faster stuff. How has the recent training gone - can you give us a quick 'diary' for the last couple of weeks? Have you been varying paces much? Stepped it up a bit too quickly? Maybe not recovered from that all-out 200? |
| over 50 |
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Dream, Sorry to read about your setback. A.R.T. with Graston technique were core to my recovery from chronic Achilles pain. I had clearly diagnosed retro calcaneal bursitis as part of the problem. Do you have observable swelling? More common for distance runners is a lump 2-4 cm above the achilles attachment point on the calcaneus (heel bone). Next common is a lump right at the calcaneus attachment (which is indicative of calcaneal bursitis, too). You will need to get swelling down (if you have it) before resuming training. Ice, rest. I had iontophoresis which helped; as we've noted earlier, my problem was more chronic than yours. If no swelling, that's better. Did you change shoes before this started? There are people who found friction on the back of the heel was source of issue. It seems that you are getting recurring problems after rest (from running or from hard running) periods. Have you been doing the eccentric stretches? With recurring issues, you are not getting to root of problem. If you have been steady with he eccentric excercises for 4 -6 weeks, the A.R.T. / Graston my be a good next step. Best of luck IM. I was not able to find a single professional medical person who could walk me through ALL of the likely cures. I went through a bunch that helped others (not me) before running form and A.R.T / Graston helped me. |
| eurodonkey |
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I'm re-emerging from 3 weeks of manic deadlines, midnight oil and a mild chest infection, and can hopefully check LRC a bit more again. ID, wow's the Achilles? Are you back to jogging yet? Also, if you keep a diary, it would be interesting to see the couple of weeks training before it flared up. First time round, you built up very, very gradually. I'm wondering if there were 3-4 days there which ramped up too fast before the injury. I also wanted to add some thoughts on mileage. There is a tendency on these boards to think that anyone under 100mpw is a wimp. But when I was young, the advice was to increase mileage by no more than 10mpw each season; so I went from 40 at 18 up to 60s with some weeks in the 70s at 21-22, and even so I still had lots of troubles with shin splints, achilles etc. Same with most people I know. I think the same probably applies to returning masters who have had 10-15 years off. My first year back was probably 40-odd for the winter; then 50; then this season I averaged 60 with a month in the 70s. There is simply no way I could have jumped up to 80s in the first six months without injury. So, if you end up finding a way to consistently run 30 or 40mpw over the summer and get back in to doing some drills, strides and racing for fun, take the chance and be grateful. There's no rush to get back up to 60 or 80. Every week that goes past with some training and no injury buys your muscles and tendons time to adapt... |
| Impossible Dream |
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First, my apologies for what is likely to be a rambling post. Before I post anything, I want to make an affirmation that is likely not one I've written assuredly in this thread. I WILL achieve a lifetime personal best within the next 18 months. I'm as determined as ever. Of course, if I fail in this endeavor in the time allotted, I am certainly not going to quit... I will keep at it. BUT, thats the last time I'm going to make that point and I won't repeat it. What I do intend to repeat is that I WILL accomplish this goal. That simple. Just to review, I'm shooting for one of these times - 5000m - faster than 15:35 8k - faster than 25:50 10000 m - faster than 32:25 (on the track) 10k - faster than 32:11 Half Marathon - faster than 1:12:50 Ok, now that that is out of the way, it seems that Euro was right (happens often around here! :) ), I did over do it last week and the pain I was feeling in my achilles was a result of my overzealous approach. Dumb move! To answer your question directly, Euro, 2 weeks ago I did 5 runs for a total of 27 miles with only one run where I picked up the pace at all, so most miles slower than 8 minute pace. Last week, I ran 5 runs for 28 miles total and everything was at a quicker pace including an impromptu 7 mile progression where I dropped the 2nd to the last mile in 6:53 and the last in 6:23. Of course, I already noted the drills and the 200m sprint. Quite obvious when one looks at it objectively that it was just dumb of me. OK, now the good news. I took Sunday off, ran an easy 3 miles on Monday. Took Tuesday off (not on purpose, work got in the way). Ran an easy 4 this morning. Pain level back to 1-ish on the pain scale whereas on Friday and Saturday last week it was at 3 or 4. It appears that I didn't have a major set back. Just a little note, I am running all my runs on a soft bark chip trail, a grass loop or on the treadmill. NOW for the key lesson from all this, PATIENCE!! If I can ever get that through my thick skull I might end up being a decent runner. So, work has been absolutely and horribly chaotic. We're breaking sales records, but doing 2 jobs is playing havoc with my training and with my diet and with my sleep schedule. In other words, I'm not exactly handling the 11 and 12 hour work days so well. It is what it is, so I'll need to adjust in the short term. Our busy time of the year runs for another 6 weeks or so and then it can get back to normal. Right now, my primary training focus and essentially my reality check is to not worry about races so much this summer but to get completely healthy. That isn't to say I'm not going to race. In fact, I hope to race a lot, just likely not as fast as I had hoped for. Come September, I want to go into Marathon mode to get ready for Vegas again, but assuming I'm healthy that doesn't mean I can't be doing some fast stuff and some racing in the fall. I think by time I've put the Vegas Marathon behind me in December, I'll be stronger than an ox and ready to really tackle the primary objective, getting faster and getting some PR's! BTW - I have faithfully been doing the eccentric calf raises. I'm up to a 30 lbs back pack and 3 x 25 on each foot after every run. I hope the folks who have supported me in this thread and the lurkers who are sending positive vibes will stick with me. It really does help that so many of you have had kind words and great advice. I won't let you all down. I promise. |
| eurodonkey |
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Sounds good. (Especially the "I WILL..." bit!) As someone who made himself ill from overwork+training+under-sleeping just a couple of weeks back, I'd say just let the busy period run its course and get out 3-4 times per week if you can. I don't actually think there's anything wrong with one of those sessions being some drills and strides, if it fits the schedule. Nor is there likely to be a problem dropping down to 6:30 or so once a week if you're feeling good. But the main thing is to be fresh before and recover well after - take at least one rest day or an easy day after a harder day so that calf can recover and grow stronger. Keep a diary and record hours of sleep as well as training. Resting pulse too if you can remember on waking. When my training is dropping off, this tends to pinpoint the culprit pretty quickly. |
| VF Runner |
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Welcome back ID (to your own thread - haha). I love the attitude and I am very glad to hear that it sounds like more of a minor setback that can be worked through. I also sometimes think we (meaning all runners) underestimate the effect that lifes daily stresses have on our running. Sure, running can be a great relief valve, but it probably won't be peak training running during very stressful times. Things going well here. I'm feeling both faster and stronger so I'm looking forward to the rest of the year. |
| Impossible Dream |
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Well, I know I've been kind of full of it lately, but a little more bad news. The LEFT achilles has flared up as of Thursday morning. For those that didn't know or forgot, I've been battling with the right achilles all this time. Anyway, ran a slow 4 miles on Thursday morning and it got tighter and less comfortable as I went along and didn't feel any better just walking around on Friday so I took Friday off. I had long been entered in a 5k this for this morning, so I went and ran figuring I would just run easy, collect my t-shirt, etc. So, I warmed up easy and I felt ok. My right achilles was not bugging me, but the left was feeling tight. As the race started I went out at what felt like jogging pace and I slowly started picking runners off. The 1st mile, which has about 400 meters of a down grade, was clicked off in 5:48, which surprised me because I really did feel like I was running very easily. Mile 2 was mostly flat with a 180 turn around and an upgrade right at the end and I heard 12 (I forgot my watch, like a dufus). The final 1.1 had several little upgrades and I was starting to feel the pace at that point. Finished in what I think was a time of 18:42 (the clock at the finish read 16:42). So, no training, 2 bad achilles and I jogged a 5k in 18:42. I guess I have to take it. It would be nice to see what I could do if I could actually run. PATIENCE is my mantra. As I've been doing yard work today, the left achilles is feeling a bit tight and a bit painful. I DID do calf raises right after my race today, by the way. Hope all are having a great weekend! |
| Slow down |
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PATIENCE is NOT your mantra.Slow down my friend. You're WAY ahead of this game. Take a week off to heal. It won't hurt your fitness (Daniels). A word to the wise should be sufficient.Just take some time off and rejuvenate and heal.No stretching. No running. Let yourself heal. You've earned it! Best of luck in any case. |
| Impossible Dream |
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You're probably right, SD, patience hasn't been my mantra has it. Coincidentally, I had decided to take your advice and not run for a week. Honestly I've been floundering a bit just not knowing what to do since I got hit with the first achilles problem 2 month ago. Just thinking about it over the past 36 hours or so and things just started to crystallize for me. It seems that my particular brand of achilles problems seems to be most agitated by impactful running and the faster the pace the worse it gets. In other words, its the pounding. So, I'm going to get on the elliptical for the next week and for the next several weeks I'm going to be really be cautious about the running but I intend to really focus on getting as fit as possible in a non running sense so that when my legs are willing I'll be ready to resume running. Easy at first of course and then building towards real running fitness. Thanks for posting Slow Down. Much appreciated. |
| Quack |
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I hope it resolves quickly and thoroughly, ID. Slow Down's right -- in the big picture, you've made *amazing* progress over a very short time. A week off isn't going to change that, and it's pretty clear from the rate at which you were improving that once you're healthy, you'll be back to getting faster at an obscene rate. :) Good luck and stay mentally strong. p.s. - I'm still taking your name in vain every other day to force myself to do core work. So far so good! |
| VF Runner |
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Patience may as well be a four letter word to most runners. It's why I spent years with ZERO days that would really be considered recovery days. I'm finally getting it though. Sounds like you are too ID. Thinking about your issues over the weekend, I kept coming back to the following quote "BTW - I have faithfully been doing the eccentric calf raises. I'm up to a 30 lbs back pack and 3 x 25 on each foot after every run." Perhaps the combination of how aggressive that workload is coupled with performing it when tired after a run has contributed to your issues. Just a thought. |