Shalane is slow!!!

Races don't happen in a vacuum; you race as the situation presents itself.

Shalane ran an incredibly great race today. She raced the race that happened today; she wasn't alone out there and so she raced her competitors not some idealized internet version of a marathon. That's what tough and gutsy and competitive athletes do: they race the people on the line with them. They don't time trial. They race like Shalane did.

If you think Deena Kastor is coming back and will be even close to being a contender for the Olympic team in 2012 I'd love to know what meds you are on.

Kastor's pregnancy is her graceful exit from the stage. She's done.

I honestly think this whole Shalane vs. Kara debate is stupid. They both ran great races in their debuts on the NYC marathon course. Yes, Shalane ran 3 minutes slower than Kara did but no on pushed the pace today and Kara just happened to be in a faster race that day with the World Record holder Paula Radcliffe. Ryan of Flotrack is awesome but this topic is honestly just stupid.

jceagels89 wrote:

this topic is honestly just stupid.

three pages of people talking about it here and on another site seem to indicate the opposite

Kara's bronze was with a weak field in 07', period. Shalane's was a loaded Olympic field in 08'. End of discussion. Shalane wins.

NO, I think Ryan is stupid! Awesome? Sure.

I think it is possible to like and appreciate and admire both Shalane and Kara. I realize this is a shocking concept.

Did anyone notice if Shalane didn't grab fluid at the last fluid stop?I saw that the two runners with her did but did not see Flanagan.

good job Deer Kara Goucher wrote: 8/10

Does Deer Adam know that Deer Kara is a boy, letrsrun troll, pretending to be his wife? Once he reaches across the bed and finds out Deer Kara is not his Kara all hell will break loose at the Deer Goucher home.

Genes are not enuf wrote:

I do not believe that Shalane will make the US Marathon team unless she changes coaches. She currently will lose to Kara and Davila and Magdalena.

Really? And why is that... tell me how many of the US Women's olympic trials races have been won in faster than 2:30. And then explain to me exactly why you don't think Shalane would absolutely smoke any of those three in a race that is run around 2:30 pace.

2008 Kara Goucher ran 1:13:24/1:12:29

2010 Shalane ran 1:15:48/1:12:52

So it looks like Kara ran the better race by this measure alone, however, looking more closely at the closing splits:

.............. 35k ..... 40k ..... FIN

Kara G.: 2:00:39 2:18:04 2:25:53

Shalane: 2:04:39 2:21:07 2:28:40

We can see that Shalane closed stronger than Kara.

Also, forgetting that superhuman Paula Radcliffe led Kara's race, relegating her to fight out second place with Ludmila Petrova (Kara finished 3rd, 10 seconds back of Petrova) Shalane was right with her closest opponent as late as 40k (today she was 4 seconds back at that split). Kara had been dropped by both Paula and Petrova as soon as 35k, falling 18 seconds behind Petrova at that split.

Add to this the fact that Shalane skipped some late fluid stops, and I think it's a bit more impressive.

US Marathon trials1. Kara2. Davila3. Magda4. Shitty Shalane

chip lohmiller wrote:

Genes are not enuf wrote:

I do not believe that Shalane will make the US Marathon team unless she changes coaches. She currently will lose to Kara and Davila and Magdalena.

Really? And why is that... tell me how many of the US Women's olympic trials races have been won in faster than 2:30. And then explain to me exactly why you don't think Shalane would absolutely smoke any of those three in a race that is run around 2:30 pace.

From the lets run homepage:

The women's race was perhaps the craziest one ever in New York, as it was a 20-mile jog and a 10k race. LA Marathon champ Edna Kiplagat, American star Shalane Flanagan and half marathon ace Mary Keitany battled over the final miles, with Kiplagat winning and Flanagan battling back for second in her debut. The top 10 were separated by an amazingly small 1:35.

Facts to note:

"20-mile job and a 10k race"-Shalane is the 10K Olympic bronze medalist so she would be expected to win in a situation like this...so not impressive that she didn't win after jogging and warming up for her signature event.

"The top 10 were seperated by an amazingly small 1:35"...again shows that Shalane was only maginally better only because of her 10K track speed...so why give her props as a marathoner when she jogged, ran a 10K and still couldn't win?

Do you really believe this junk? Even to the men the first 20 miles of the women's race was not a 'jog'. It was less than elite marathon pace, but the first part of the race, where there was a lot of time lost, was, for instance a first mile uphill into a wind that was quite strong because of the exposure on the bridge, and then the downhill was pretty slow because of the wind and who is going to want to break the wind for the rest -- that is why they stayed in a group.I would think a Half would be much more indicative than a 10,000 for two reasons. First, it was not a jog, and second, you still run out of fuel at the end. I would think that posters on LetsRun would KNOW a lot more about distance running than has been shown on these threads; some really ignorant postings.

Kara is the better marathoner wrote:

...so not impressive that she didn't win after jogging and warming up for her signature event.

When you get a chance today, be sure to look up the word "hyperbole" in the dictionary.

chip lohmiller wrote:

Really? And why is that... tell me how many of the US Women's olympic trials races have been won in faster than 2:30. And then explain to me exactly why you don't think Shalane would absolutely smoke any of those three in a race that is run around 2:30 pace.

As long as we are talking history, let me answer your question.

Because 4 of the fastest 5 female American marathoners are in this race.

Deena, Kara, Desiree, Magdalena.

The only American that has EVER run faster than any of these 4 women is Joannie.

So in order to stay with the history lesson. When in the history of the trials have there been 4 women on the starting line that have all run under 2:26:30?

Assuming everyone gets to the line healthy and with a proper buildup:

Women:

Shalane

Kara

Kastor

Desi (alternate)

Men:

Hall

Meb

Ritz

Gotcher (alternate)

I don't agree with you but I find it interesting that the Womens trials (one year out) appears to be better than the men. You have 11th in the last WC not making the team.

Men

Hall (we will see how the non coaching experiment works)

Ritz (most people think he is not a marathoner)

Meb (a great guy but seems to be slipping a little)

Goucher (we will find out if his debut was just luck)

Hartmann (is 2:11 good enough)

Arciniaga (looked horrible in Chicago)

workout routines

MEB K.: "...if you're going to play football or things like that -- you have to intimidate your opponent. But here it's a long way. Let's help each other out and get the best out of ourselves."

dhs 83 wrote:

Not fair to compare Shalane's time with Kara's. Two different races. You can't fault Shalane for the slow pace. As a first-time marathoner, I think she would've been nuts to force the pace herself early. She gave herself the best chance to win given the way the race unfolded. Just didn't have it at the end.

I look forward to seeing Kara and Shalane square off. I'm fans of them both.