letrundotcom
5x1 mile repeats with 1:1 work/rest ratio, 10k time? 10/22/2010 9:12AM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
hi all im a coach, could you help me translate these workout times of my top athletes to 10k from 5x1mile repeats with 1:1 ratio on rest-so if they did it in 5min they got 5 rest before the next one.
group1) 4:40avg on 5x1mile = ???10k race time etc.
group 2) 4:45avg
group 3) 5:50avg
Is this a good workout structure? We usually have shorter rest but I thought this was a good VO2 max workout...
THANKS!
letrundotcom
RE: 5x1 mile repeats with 1:1 work/rest ratio, 10k time? 10/22/2010 9:13AM - in reply to letrundotcom Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
group 3 was 450avg, not 550, my mistake!
ukathleticscoach
RE: 5x1 mile repeats with 1:1 work/rest ratio, 10k time? 10/22/2010 9:41AM - in reply to letrundotcom Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Rest is too long for a predictor session (ok for training still a bit long)

Say you took a miler they might finish in a certain time with all that recovery, but nowhere near the endurance to last the 10k

I would do 4 x 1 mile 90 secs. That pace gives 5km predictor add 1 min for the 10km

The actual 10km predictor would be a bit too much in training

As a coach if you have had the athletes for a while you should not be asking these sort of nonsense questions. The best way to predict is on a set session when pr set compared to the set session now. Even then if your athletes try to run to much to the clock they will usually come unstuck.
Not the OP
RE: 5x1 mile repeats with 1:1 work/rest ratio, 10k time? 10/22/2010 9:58AM - in reply to ukathleticscoach Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

ukathleticscoach wrote:
I would do 4 x 1 mile 90 secs. That pace gives 5km predictor add 1 min for the 10km



UK, Can you clarify the "add 1 min for the 10km"? Does that mean that you would estimate the 10k by multiplying the workout mile pace by 6.2 and then add another minute to the total? Thanks
TheJerk
RE: 5x1 mile repeats with 1:1 work/rest ratio, 10k time? 10/22/2010 9:59AM - in reply to letrundotcom Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
The workout you did was a good workout, provided the mile repeats were run closer to 5k pace than 10k pace. With a 5 min. rest the workbouts can be done at a much higher intensity. You should also indicate what your athletes were doing during the rest - was it a standing rest or a jog? A brisk jog?

BUT, it was NOT a good indicator workout....there is a big difference. If you are intersted in doing a workout to gague the fitness of your athletes than I would suggest the following:

8 X 1k @ 10k pace (400m brisk jog - for your Group A athletes no slower than 90 secs. - this is the KEY)

The key is to keep the rests a) short, 2) keep moving at a good pace during rest.

With your workout the rests are too long long to be able to make any predictions of race pace. Some 32 min. guys with good speed could run those mile repeats in 4:40.....while a 30 min. strength-based runner may run similar times
Goose and Gander
RE: 5x1 mile repeats with 1:1 work/rest ratio, 10k time? 10/22/2010 2:31PM - in reply to letrundotcom Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
This would be a VO2 max workout and on the longer side of it. Assuming this workout is indicative of their levels at other workout types (such as Lactate threshold) then here is the approx. 10k times your groups represent:

Group 1: 30:45 - 31:00

Group 2: 31:15 - 31:30

Group 3: 31:45 - 32:00

As someone else mentioned not a great predictor workout for the 10k but something certainly many good 10k runners have in their schedules.

Of course these times would be if the race was done on a similar surface and in similar conditions. Also would assume that your athletes didn't race this workout, but rather it was just a good solid workout appropriate effort.
eh, semantics
RE: 5x1 mile repeats with 1:1 work/rest ratio, 10k time? 10/22/2010 2:40PM - in reply to Goose and Gander Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
You split them into 3 groups when there is only a 5 sec/mile difference between groups?
ukathleticscoach
RE: 5x1 mile repeats with 1:1 work/rest ratio, 10k time? 10/22/2010 2:55PM - in reply to Not the OP Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Not the OP wrote:


ukathleticscoach wrote:
I would do 4 x 1 mile 90 secs. That pace gives 5km predictor add 1 min for the 10km



UK, Can you clarify the "add 1 min for the 10km"? Does that mean that you would estimate the 10k by multiplying the workout mile pace by 6.2 and then add another minute to the total? Thanks


Just realised it would come to the same (!) but here is how I work it

eg 4 x 1 mile (90secs rec) in 5 mins average. 5 mins is then the pace/mile for 5km race (don't forget this is a predictor not training session so its a full effort)

So approx 15:30 x 2 = 31 add 1 minute = 32 mins 10km

Wouldn't it be easier for running if we'd stuck to miles it just fits running better!

The reason longer recoveries don't work as a predictor is a miler type will cream most distance runners with a 5 min recovery but in a 10km race they will struggle

Its a lot better to just do a race to see where you are upto anyway
lkjh
RE: 5x1 mile repeats with 1:1 work/rest ratio, 10k time? 10/22/2010 3:08PM - in reply to ukathleticscoach Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Its a lot better to just do a race to see where you are upto anyway


Agreed. If you're going to run 100%, might as well race someone.
666EnergyDrink
RE: 5x1 mile repeats with 1:1 work/rest ratio, 10k time? 1/8/2011 4:27AM - in reply to lkjh Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
There are always a ton of variables, weather, travel, etc., but I can tell you that the first time I ran sub 31 on the road (in Japan), I did 3x1mile (1609 meters) on the track in 4:41 average with 5:00 rest on Tuesday, then 8x1000 on the track (3:00 rest) in 2:55 avg. on Thursday. I did a short jog on Friday and Saturday and ran a 30:44 on Sunday on the road, very windy race. Probably could have run 30:30 that day if I had attacked more from 3km to 6km.
I am the walrus
RE: 5x1 mile repeats with 1:1 work/rest ratio, 10k time? 1/8/2011 5:34AM - in reply to 666EnergyDrink Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
this is ridiculous. I think most people put too much emphasis on "key indicator workouts" etc.. One workout tells you nothing. Look at the past 4-6 weeks of your training and see how your workouts where done in the context of your overall volume and intensity.

I ran 30:47 in a 10 k road race about two months ago. 5 days before I ran 10 x 1km with 400m jog in 90sec. the 1k's I averaged 3:11. I couldn't go any faster that day.
After that workout I knew I could probably go sub 31 - but only because I knew what I had done the weeks before in training. Lots of mileage at threshold pace, combined with strides and 150m repeats. And then I rested properly 3 days for the race. A race is supposed to be much faster than your workouts and not supposed to be on the same level.

Cheers.
ukathleticscoach
RE: 5x1 mile repeats with 1:1 work/rest ratio, 10k time? 1/8/2011 6:35AM - in reply to letrundotcom Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
The only reliable predictor session I know is this

4 x 1 mile 90 sec rec = 5 km race pace

x2 add 1 min = 10km time (but you need to do the ,miles to get to 10km)

Even using that (the short recoveries is a bit of an equalizer)every runner is still different. Some will go all out some hold back for the race

You session with longer recoveries is no use as a predictor* but you need to seperate out a normal training session to a rarely run (never would be my ideal!) predictor session

* A miler type will cruise 5 minute miles with such a recovery but without recoveres in a race might die at that pace

When I was running I knew if someone was level with me in such a session as yours they would hammer me in a 10km race..and I had no speed. But I could set a good pace on an interval session with long recoveries because it didn't expose my weakness. Not just me all runners are different

Trying to run a race to a set pace is very hard anyway. Can a younger athlete actually say I'm running 70's and stick to it. No they get to the mile point then find out what pace they are actually running. You need to get the runner to instinctively know what pace (and not by the clock) they can hold for different distances. It's all about the amount of effort for different distances.