Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 |
Sub_3_chaser
Meltdown during a sub 3 marathon try 10/19/2010 10:11AM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I did the amsterdam marathon on sunday, and the weather was almost perfect (maybe a bit chilly at the beginning). My plan was to go sub 3, and before that race, my PRs for half marathon was 1:30:20 (last year), and for the full marathon was 3:11:22 (two years ago). Sub 3 didn't happen and these were my split times:

5 km 20:36 (20:36)
10 km 41:06 (20:30)
15 km 1:01:52 (20:46)
20 km 1:22:32 (20:40)
21,1 km 1:27:05
25 km 1:43:52 (21:20)
30 km 2:07:00 (23:08)
35 km 2:32:49 (25:49)
40 km 2:58:28 (25:39)
Net time 3:09:55
Gros time 3:10:08
Speed 13,331 Km/Hour

So I broke my half marathon PR by almost 3 and half minutes, and my marathon times by one and a half minutes. I forgot to bring my watch to the race, and there were no pace makers for 3 hrs, so I ended up following some guys who told me they were targeting 2:59. I was feeling so good, I have to try hard not to go faster, but at some point around 12K, I felt the guys I was following were too slow and left them. Around the half point, I started feeling some pain on my left knee and slowed a bit, and it went very bad after the 25K point, and so annoyed at myself when I saw the "slow" guys passing me at around 30K.

So my question is:
- If I have done a 1:30 or 1:31 first half, do you think I could have made it?
- Apart from the knee pain, I was quite OK, so can that be due to the temperature? It was a bit chilly at the beginning and I didn't have time to warm up properly before start (only 5 to 10 minutes)
- Is it better to race without a watch? I actually felt much better running without a watch as I was simply following my body (while with a watch I would have been checking it every 500 meters), but of course the side effect was I ended up running a first half that was too fast.
- Considering I did a 1:27 half during a marathon, shall I target something like 1:25 for my next half marathon (spring 2011)?
hrumph
RE: Meltdown during a sub 3 marathon try 10/19/2010 10:21AM - in reply to Sub_3_chaser Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
it's all about negative splits in the marathon, bro
.............
RE: Meltdown during a sub 3 marathon try 10/19/2010 10:25AM - in reply to Sub_3_chaser Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Answers to your four questions:

1)You went out too fast
2)You went out too fast
3)You went out too fast
4)You went out too fast
oh please
RE: Meltdown during a sub 3 marathon try 10/19/2010 10:35AM - in reply to Sub_3_chaser Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Cool story bro.

I have done a half in 1:27 (as in last weekend), and I still do not think I'm ready to try for a sub 3. My goal is a half in 1:25 before I will train for a marathon, so for your question 4 I agree.

And yes, if your PR in the half is 1:30, and you go 1:27 for a full, you went out too fast.
Chic Harley...
RE: Meltdown during a sub 3 marathon try 10/19/2010 10:47AM - in reply to ............. Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
this guy is right on all 4 of his points...patience grasshopper!


............. wrote:

Answers to your four questions:

1)You went out too fast
2)You went out too fast
3)You went out too fast
4)You went out too fast
Precious Roy
RE: Meltdown during a sub 3 marathon try 10/19/2010 10:49AM - in reply to oh please Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Answers to your questions:

1. You aren't there yet, keep trying.
2. You aren't there yet, keep trying.
3. You aren't there yet, keep trying.
4. You aren't there yet, keep trying.

A three hour marathon is not a physical barrier. It is a mental barrier. If you run a 3:00.00.01, you have wasted three hours of your life and twenty four weeks of training. If you run a 2:59.59.99, you will be congradulated by all your runner buddies and have a great sense of accomplishment (and run a 2:52 next time out when you get over the whole 3hr thing). Just keep trying. You will get there. It does help to shoot for a 2:57-58 to give yourself a buffer in case the wheels come off. It took me three tries because I kept getting psyched out and couldn't convince myself that I could hold the pace in the last 6 mi. But, I finally got it done and am now shooting for 2:45. Keep at it. It will happen. Don't overthink it.
cabana
RE: Meltdown during a sub 3 marathon try 10/19/2010 11:14AM - in reply to ............. Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

............. wrote:

Answers to your four questions:

1)You went out too fast
2)You went out too fast
3)You went out too fast
4)You went out too fast


This.
Flagpole
RE: Meltdown during a sub 3 marathon try 10/19/2010 11:58AM - in reply to Sub_3_chaser Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Sub_3_chaser wrote:

I did the amsterdam marathon on sunday, and the weather was almost perfect (maybe a bit chilly at the beginning). My plan was to go sub 3, and before that race, my PRs for half marathon was 1:30:20 (last year), and for the full marathon was 3:11:22 (two years ago). Sub 3 didn't happen and these were my split times:

5 km 20:36 (20:36)
10 km 41:06 (20:30)
15 km 1:01:52 (20:46)
20 km 1:22:32 (20:40)
21,1 km 1:27:05
25 km 1:43:52 (21:20)
30 km 2:07:00 (23:08)
35 km 2:32:49 (25:49)
40 km 2:58:28 (25:39)
Net time 3:09:55
Gros time 3:10:08
Speed 13,331 Km/Hour

So I broke my half marathon PR by almost 3 and half minutes, and my marathon times by one and a half minutes. I forgot to bring my watch to the race, and there were no pace makers for 3 hrs, so I ended up following some guys who told me they were targeting 2:59. I was feeling so good, I have to try hard not to go faster, but at some point around 12K, I felt the guys I was following were too slow and left them. Around the half point, I started feeling some pain on my left knee and slowed a bit, and it went very bad after the 25K point, and so annoyed at myself when I saw the "slow" guys passing me at around 30K.

So my question is:
- If I have done a 1:30 or 1:31 first half, do you think I could have made it?
- Apart from the knee pain, I was quite OK, so can that be due to the temperature? It was a bit chilly at the beginning and I didn't have time to warm up properly before start (only 5 to 10 minutes)
- Is it better to race without a watch? I actually felt much better running without a watch as I was simply following my body (while with a watch I would have been checking it every 500 meters), but of course the side effect was I ended up running a first half that was too fast.
- Considering I did a 1:27 half during a marathon, shall I target something like 1:25 for my next half marathon (spring 2011)?


Even after seven marathons, I personally never learned to run a good one, but when looking back at them, I know that I did what you have done here...went out too fast.

You are right on the cusp, so there's no guarantee that you would have made it had you run even splits, but almost assuredly you would have run faster than 3:09. Lots of attempts worse than that out there though brother. I once went through the half in 1:20 and finished in 3:20.
Sub_3_chaser
RE: Meltdown during a sub 3 marathon try 10/20/2010 2:28AM - in reply to Flagpole Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
thank you all for the response. Yeah, I think I was too optimistic. I am sure the psychological aspect is also playing a big part. I think I will focus on shorter races, 5, 10 and half till summer, and maybe try to go to sub 1:25 on the half before I try a sub 3 again:-)
ukathleticscoach
RE: Meltdown during a sub 3 marathon try 10/20/2010 3:31AM - in reply to Sub_3_chaser Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
You should have done more races before the marathon
Sub_3_chaser
RE: Meltdown during a sub 3 marathon try 10/20/2010 7:20AM - in reply to ukathleticscoach Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

ukathleticscoach wrote:

You should have done more races before the marathon


thanks for mentioning that. So what kind of races do you recommend? just halves or even shorter ones like 5k will help? So assuming that I want to try the sub 3 again next fall, what could be a good training strategy before I begin the marathon training around May/June?
Chic Harley...
RE: Meltdown during a sub 3 marathon try 10/20/2010 7:29AM - in reply to Sub_3_chaser Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
IMO all race distances help as long as the timing is right in regards to your training. From what I've read the last few years AND what has worked for me is to run a 1/2 ALL OUT 4-6 weeks in front of a marathon to test fitness. I think most people also agree that racing other distances during training is also good. They build your confidence, show you where you're at, AND get you psychologically "race ready", after all the only place that you can duplicate everything that goes into a race...is a race!
Specifically to you, racing some halfs may help you learn to be more patient in the full, I think you had a shot at sub 3:00 but went out too fast. Don't give up, you can do it.
joho
RE: Meltdown during a sub 3 marathon try 10/20/2010 8:50AM - in reply to Sub_3_chaser Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
You asked about wearing a watch in the marathon. If you are running for a specific time, which you were, I personally think you need to wear a watch. Know what pace you need to run, and it sounds like you did, and check the watch to make sure you do not exceed this pace, ESPECIALLY in the first half of the race. If you are feeling good after 20, then you can start to exceed your goal pace. That should also ensure a negative split, if you goal pace is accurate.

If you are racing for a win or position then the watch isn't important.

I think you have the fitness for a sub 3, it's just hard to run the perfect marathon.
Good luck
Bum
RE: Meltdown during a sub 3 marathon try 10/20/2010 10:25AM - in reply to ukathleticscoach Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

ukathleticscoach wrote:

You should have done more races before the marathon


This is wrong. You didn't do enough miles before the marathon. More doubles, up your mileage by 10 mpw. Quit worrying about long runs, track workouts, races.

More doubles, 10 mpw more. You died off after 13, you may need 15 more a week. Just add 3 5 mile morning runs a week and you'll do it easy.
ukathIeticscoach
RE: Meltdown during a sub 3 marathon try 10/20/2010 10:31AM - in reply to Bum Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
No I am right. Do you know how many athletes I've coached to prominence?

Your inexperience is apparent. My athletes race and all of you should close your mouths and listen when I speak.
Chic Harley...
RE: Meltdown during a sub 3 marathon try 10/20/2010 10:58AM - in reply to ukathIeticscoach Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
what he said... :)


ukathIeticscoach wrote:

No I am right. Do you know how many athletes I've coached to prominence?

Your inexperience is apparent. My athletes race and all of you should close your mouths and listen when I speak.
MarathonMind
RE: Meltdown during a sub 3 marathon try 10/20/2010 11:11AM - in reply to Sub_3_chaser Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
1:27 might have been fast enough for a 3:00 but you started out and held a pace way too fast for your goal.
21:20 was your goal 5k pace and had you held that for the first 25k you would have been in a lot better shape for the rest of the race and had a better shot.
kicker
RE: Meltdown during a sub 3 marathon try 10/20/2010 11:16AM - in reply to Sub_3_chaser Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
1:30 for the half isn't good enough. You need run 1:24-1:25.

And you went out too fast ;-)

Get you 10K down in the 38's too if it is not already there.
BEC
RE: Meltdown during a sub 3 marathon try 10/20/2010 11:21AM - in reply to MarathonMind Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
A quick and relatively accurate way of predicting your marathon time is to take a recently run half, double your time, and add ten minutes. If you do that with your 1:30 half, that puts you right at 3:10, which is what you actually did in your recent marathon.

As someone mentioned, negative splitting is the most successful way to run a marathon. Obviously, this requires good training (long runs with marathon pace thrown in, tempo runs, etc.) and also patience.

Good luck!
immodest proposal
RE: Meltdown during a sub 3 marathon try 10/20/2010 4:25PM - in reply to BEC Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

A quick and relatively accurate way of predicting your marathon time is to take a recently run half, double your time, and add ten minutes. If you do that with your 1:30 half, that puts you right at 3:10, which is what you actually did in your recent marathon.

Considering he actually ran 1:27 in the first half of this race, he's in at least 1:27 half marathon shape - so the formula "working" is coincidence. Plug the 1:27 back in and he should've been able to run 3:04 (off a 1:32 first half).

Or figure that he wasn't completely exhausted at the half and was probably in 1:25ish shape -> predicts 3:00 marathon. For which 1:27 was still close to 15 sec/mile too fast.
Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 |