Why do I struggle with a standard 20min tempo run

because the 10k was short - was it part of a tri?

maybe you start out too fast, try doing the first 800 of a tempo in like 3:20 and then make it an acceleration run or somethi

skip wrote:

10km race recently - 36:30

struggle to do a 20min tempo run at 6:20 pace

no problem with easy runs at 7:30-8:00min pace for up to 2hrs

recent workout 12x 200m w/ 200m jog rest - 33-35 secs, again no real problem

not sure why I struggle with tempo runs and VO2 max workouts

Well,I'm with you.I always had trouble with those intermediate distance efforts(1K-3K) when training alone,yet not when racing them.No problem as you say with long runs and short interval work.

I put it down to two reasons,they "seem" to hurt more and are boring to do by youself.

Doing them with a group takes care of both reasons.

What kind of warm-up are you giving yourself?

I think the advice of starting a little slower is good; what may also work is just giving yourself a real good warm-up, maybe 30 minutes and a couple strides before you kick it off.

If your long runs are 2 hrs, you could probably do a solid 45 minutes of 7-8min pace warming up and then really crank for 20-30 minutes and still feel really good cooling down afterward.

Try doing it on a track. Tempo pace just feels so much easier on the track instead of the road (flat course) for me so I can only surmise its a mental issue for me. If you are still struggling, slow down, or wear a heart rate monitor and see how hard you are working.

Your tempo is a bit too fast. It should be at your 10 mile or 1/2 marathon race pace

You need to do longer reps in your workouts as well

Alomst identical to OP (times and all).

Find tempo runs and longer intervals really tough and they lag behind my race times/shorter workouts .

I think its a mental issues....I used the treadmill. At least that way I could set the pace and then just focus on relaxing for the 20 mins and holding pace.

It worke but I dont think treadmill running is ideal and I always felt like I was cheating or not getting full benefit (even with a slight incline).

I'd say finding a group could be a good suggestion.

I really don't know about this. How recovered do you find yourself before such a tempo run? I feel the exact same thing about tempo runs and long reps. When i'm tired the 1200m reps hurt much more than the 200's with short recovery. I find it so much easier to do short and sharp reps when a little tired compared to long reps. Also the day after something like 5 x 1200m I feel totally wasted but it's a completely different story when doing 20 x 200m. Last year when a little out of shape I ran a 1:13 half marathon but couldn't really do short tempo runs in the 3.30 min pr km zone before that when I was training pretty hard. So you might not be recovered well enough before your tempo runs or else I don't know anything. But we are very different. Noone says that long reps and tempo runs is the best thing for you and me and many other runners. Why not run many competitions and just do short reps? I find that much funnier - I kind of lose my will power and interest to do a good 10k if I burry myself with 1000m reps at 10k pace in training. And it's the same story when it comes to tempo runs - I really can't manage them.

Some of you probably think i'm talking shit now but if you are able to do something like 5 x 2000m or a 5000m test in training at date 10k pace you would be much better of running a hard 8 - 10k competition - in my opinion. That's so much funnier and more rewarding. So in the longer distances you can race yourself fit. It's a totally different store when it comes to 800m and 1500m. 20 x 200m at 1500m date pace is possible so in this case you are able to run almost three times the race distance. It doesn't work with the 10k - 50 x 600m won't really make sense.

So my advice. If you can't manage those tempo runs in a decent way just forget about them and compete as often as you can while maintaining those short reps (200 - 400meters) close to mile race pace :)

Why not do your tempo run on the track & try cruise intervals?

Daniels: 4 X 5:00 @ 85% w/ 1:00 rest.

Vigil: 4 X 1600 @ 85% w/ 3:00 rest.

what about fast twitch/ slow twitch runner, does anyone buy into that theory

What theory? We all have both fast and slow twitch in different proportions. Most of your fast twith fibers are also aerobic fibers, hence much of the confusion.

Anyways, stop trying to race your tempo runs. Start out at a pace you could hold for 90 minutes and speed up, then you will have no problem.

Beware of heat and humidity also. And try to vary the length of your tempo runs. There is nothing special about 20 minutes. Tempo runs can be longer or shorter.

Find a one mile loop somewhere or a flat stretch of road exactly one mile, and do 4 miles. Start your watch when you go and drop it at the start. Go by effort, slower at the start. If your effort is steady, the pace will drop on its own. When you get to the end, grab your watch from where you dropped it and stop your timer. Give yourself 5ish seconds for the drop and find, and average it out for 4 miles. You won't get exact splits, but your effort will be more true tempo, and if you do that a few times, your pace will naturally come down.

you didn't really give us much to work with. 7:30-8 min pace 2 hr. Your racing times don't reflect that level of work. I presume it's your Sunday Long Run and the longest run of the week. Perhaps even enough to log 2 days worth of regular day mileage. sub 7 is too fast of a tempo for you. The key word is comfortably hard.

7 min/mile should not be too fast of a tempo pace for someone that can run a 10k at sub 6 pace. It is either mental as others have mentioned or he is tired from previous days training.

interesting theory, anyone else try this

0/10

400m - 58sec

100m - 14sec

-> never train at these paces

recent 5km in 17:49, running 50+ miles/week for over 10 years, did an 8km tempo run today in 31:53 and felt like a race

any advice? other than quitting

I'm an 18-flat highschooler, and can easily do a 4 mile tempo at 6:05 pace or faster. Some people might say that's too fast, but I've always been able to maintain fast paces (only a little slower than race pace) for longer periods of time and not have it feel like too much of a strain.

I usually start my tempos in a group of 1 or 2 teammates, but end up dropping them behind at 2.5-3 miles. Maybe you're starting off too fast.

I wouldn't quit, but it either seems to be mental or starting off too fast.

Well, not easily, but a significant difference from race effort at least.