Is it really worth being a professional distance runner in the USA??

Trex123 wrote:

I mean even for the top runners what can you hope to make annually after you retire??

The top runners can make a reasonably good living during their running career and create some name recognition that they be able to leverage for their post-running careers.

I mean for runners like Jorge Torres or Adam Goucher what could these guys be except shoe sales men? Maybe move up to assistant manager of a shoe store?? Work at the Boy's and Girl's club? I know these guys went to college, but when you've spent the better part of your life running and not building up a skill that's useful in the real world, what could you hope to do?

If you've made it to 35 solely as a professional runner then you've probably stayed in one career longer than most people do and you move on just like a lot of non-runners. The more common scenario for B level runners is that they have some sort of a career even during their competitive years so they're not really behind in career development. I've known a few semi-pro athletes including a cyclist who went to the Olympics as an alternate and continued to compete for a few years as a pro before getting a "real job", a bob sledder who went to the Olympics but was working a real job all throughout with some time allowances for his training and is now employed by the USOC, a national caliber distance runner who used her (scholarship) accounting degree while competing and still does the corporate accounting gig, and a semi-pro football player who sits a few offices down from me. I also worked with a guy who was an NCAA conference champion thrower who continued to compete for a few years post-collegiate while working his engineering job. So what these people do is either leverage their athletic career or get a real job just like everyone else except they don't have to wonder what might have been.

You are an idiot. What makes you think that a former runner could only do something 'running related' and menial? I know of many former 'pro runners' (though most of us did not make a living at it in the 70s and 80s; it was more of a very serious hobby, that paid a little); who are: lawyers, doctors, real estate people, teachers, accountants, salesmen, etc. What makes you think that runners couldn't adapt to working and living in the real world once their careers are over?

Daniel Lincoln - Doctor

Tom Graves - earned an EdD while running professionally and is now a school superintendent.

I didn't bother reading through all the replies to this but the one thing that I must mention is that most if not all of the distance runners have a good education to fall back on. Most are going to have no trouble getting along in life. Also, well it may seem a waste of time for you, these people can look back on what they have done and not wonder --- what might have been. I am older and as I talk to people of retirement age and beyond you'd be surprised at how many of them wish they had gone after their dreams.

I don't see how it's any different from how non athletes change careers in their thirties or forties. You probably won't be able to be a doctor or investment banker or actor. But, you can become a teacher or a police officer. Sure you may have to start with low pay, but you'll be working for 30 more years and you'll catch up.

Trex123 wrote:

oh here come the attacks to try and stray from my OP.

I'm fine people, I enjoy running and racing from time to time. I feel good that I know 30 years from now I could travel the world, provide for my family, and race at the same time. I could spend my life trying to break 13:30 in the 5k, but it just doesn't make economic sense

Most people whose first priority in life is maximizing their own economic value without taking significant risks probably shouldn't run even at a college level because it probably makes getting high grades more difficult.

Even the percentage of professional runners who do it because it makes "economic sense" is probably tiny (excluding Kenyans, etc. from very poor countries). They do it because they love running and are willing to give up a few years of time and income to do something they love.

Fortunately, the world is full of people who are interested in things besides making the maximum amount of money in life. The folks only interested in making money are not very much fun to be around.

Trex123 wrote:

but it just doesn't make economic sense

If we took economics into account for every decision that we make, we wouldn't do a lot of things. If you always look at dollars and cents, you'll just take the safe path. If you look at things from a $ perspective, it probably doesn't make sense to have children or to take vacations. Some people do things because it makes them happy (increases their utility). If running professionally makes people happy, then maybe it will help them throughout the rest of their lives. You can say "what if" for every decision that you make.

It doesn't make a lot of 'economic sense' to move to LA to pursue acting, or to join the Peace Corps and go abroad, or to backpack around Europe for half a year. But people do these types of things.

Elite distance runners do collect prize money, and most likely save it like everyone else. Even if they have to pay a portion to their agent, could you collect $5000 on a Saturday afternoon running a 10k?

After their running careers are over, "World Class Athlete" or "Olympic Athlete" looks darn good on a resume.

wfr wrote:

Daniel Lincoln - Doctor

Tom Graves - earned an EdD while running professionally and is now a school superintendent.

Hold on now! Dan Lincoln was only a pro runner for a very short time! He actually chose Med School over reaching his potential as a pro runner. If anything you are giving credibility to the OP's argument that being a pro runner isn't worth it and one should move on.

Tommy Nohilly - 8:17 steepler from NY back in the 80's. Represented USA numerous times and was a pro runner. Owns his own personal training and fitness company. He is doing well and was one of those between the cracks guys that you are referring, I would think. Also, he still competes in his late 40's and is still running like 3:59ish for the 1500 because he loves running and is a competitor.

I don't see how you're getting a personal attack out of anything I've written. But if you limit your life to doing only the things that make economic sense you're likely to have a pretty limited existence, and your idea that somehow a person who concetrates on their running while they're in their twenties are going to be unable to succeed in other aspects of life is just wrong.

Peter Snell is doing very well in the academic world and he was 34 when he started college. There's no reason that other runners cannot reinvent themselves when they're done running seriously, nor does anything prevent them from running professionally for a few years and moving on if they find the finances too difficult.

It's all a matetr of what you want from life, but to return to an earlier point I would much rather have a sub 13:30 five km best than a house. Of course that makes no economic sense, but everyone has a house. What's distinctive about that?

Maybe Dan Lincoln realized what many average pro runners doesn't realize. Maybe he saw what life actually costs when you're not living off your parents or the government, or off you spouse. He realized that he could still run, he could still enjoy life, and get a decent job at the same time.

I don't know about many of these average pro runners but I plan on traveling when i'm 55, I plan on owning more than an apartment at 55, I plan on eating meat for dinner and not cornflakes, I plan on being able to send my son to the doctors when he gets the flu and not having to pay $300 to $500, I also plan on buying a car, affording my car insurance, and the gas that goes into the tank, I plan on driving farther than the city limits at 55 and I also plan just simply enjoy life because even at 55 or even 70 you want to enjoy life just as much as you did when you were younger. I will do all this because I have a job and chose not to let some company like Nike short change my life for barely livable wage at the expense of not nurturing skills that I will carry for a lifetime.

Or you could be dead by 55. Or things could go to hell with the economy or your life and all of your retirement savings will be gone.

I'm 42 - seems to me that up to 28 or so, you should chase the dream, live on rice and beans, whatever.

But after that...you have to settle down and plan a path for the rest of your life, since you will almost certainly have hit your athletic peak, and most people need a plan, a progression, in order to be happy.

HRE - you've probably seen aimless people in their 30s and 40s - don't you think they are hurting, generally?

Another big success after running is Bob Kempainen - olympian, 2:08 guy, now an MD.

I'm one of the people chasing glory. I did well in college and now I'm trying to make the next step. I've done well in some big races but I haven't won any big time races. I am in my mid 20's and I don't get any money from my parents except for on my birthday and christmas. I have no problem paying for a decent life, fresh food, health and car insurance and some extras for a helped out by the vacation at the end of the season and I can eat out a few times a week etc.

I don't own a home but I am halfway through payments on a decent car. I get to travel all over the US to wonderful places like des moines iowa and albuquerque new mexico (and also San Diego and NYC) etc. I've also gone a few times abroad.

I don't pay a cent for Running gear and electrolite drink/food. I also collect a decent amount of frequent flier miles each year which help out if I want to go on non-running trips. I get to write off all sorts of different expenses on my taxes as work related since I'm self-employed. I know these perks are nothing compared to someone making 6 or 7 digets but they save me quite a bit of money.

I'm not living the high life but I'm not in debt either. I have a lot of friends who are the same age as me or older who are living at home either unemployed or working as a manager at some retail store. I am making more than both of those senarios. I also think that my running accomplishments at this point probably look better on a resume than being a shift manager at enterprise rent-a-car.

I do have a few friends with engineering degrees who are making a great living and friends in either med school or law school and I'm sure they will be very successful. The problem is that even if I weren't running I wouldn't be in med school or law school and I didn't major in engineering.

I intend on getting an MBA at some point in the future and hopefully I can land a sports, hopefully running related job. I think being a professional athlete will help this endevor. I've already met several executives at various shoe companies and I've talked to race sponsors at various races. I feel like I've got up to another 10 years in the sport but I've always got my post running future in mind.

In the end I am doing what I love for a living. I'd take that over a desk job and a 4 bed 2 bath town home anyday.

I always see interesting threads that are several pages deep by the time I read them. I'm going to comment, without having read pages 2-6.

For the money certainly not. Although I doubt Alan Webb would be making more doing anything else. There's a few others for whom that is true, but they are really one in a million.

So then I would say it's worth it only if you are really driven to pursue a dream. Maybe an Olympic team hopeful. If you're not at the level of realistically training to make an international competition team representing the US, then I would say you would have to get an uncanny level of satisfaction out of just running. You will get a living stipend at best, and probably have to work part time as well.

After college I thought about trying to do the Hanson's program. I broke 30 in the 10k, so I would not have been one of their guys who got all the benefits, but I think they would have let me train with them and maybe I could have improved and gotten some support. There were some stops I still could have pulled out that might have given me another step, but probably only to about high 28 min range in the 10. And that doesn't get you much.

I was worried about what employers would think of doing that for three years instead of beginning my engineering career. Also feeling responsibility to start using the degree that my parents largely paid for. Yeah I was lucky.

In hindsight I don't think they would have disapproved, and I think employers would have understood as well. I've got a lot more insight into industry now. I don't know about taking ten years after college and doing nothing but running, but 3 would be OK. But I don't regret my decision, because I'm still pretty proud of what I did accomplish and running 28:50 would still be a far cry from an Olympic team.

If you really love running and have a big dream, or if you are a lot better than I was, I would encourage you to give hard core running training a couple years after college. See how it goes. If you don't get a whole lot better you should probably think about earning a living and the other good things in life.

It really helps to get with a good training group though. I thought I was tough but I just couldn't do hard interval workouts alone and hit the splits. If you're not good enough to get support, see if a good group will let you train with them and find a way to support yourself.

My take on the matter is that if you are good enough to be a legitimate professional runner then do it(Wheating/Webb/Hall) But if you are average then get a job and run on the side like the real men did in the old days (Rodgers/Salaza/Shorter)

Peter Snell - Scientist

See the problem here is that you very strongly use the world "PLAN". Plans are like Farts, everybody has them, but most of the time they stink and are just fumes. How many people go to college with a plan and end of changing it after graduation. I'm sure before you became embittered that your career turned sour you planned to take running as far as you could, and maybe become professional, but then you somehow along the way became very materialistic and couldn't get that out of running.

On the subject of Daniel Lincoln, I happen to be close friends with him and can assure you that he would much rather be running if his body let him. He is one of the longest med students there was because he kept putting off school for running and was planning the same, putting off rotations for running, but then his achilles flared up once again and he is finally going fully into the career, not for materialistic reasons, but because he has to as his body has failed him.

BTW I am still waiting for you to identify yourself as you claim to be a good runner that "wised up" for life. It is easy to throw out 13:30, its just a number buddy!!