After the 10,000 any doubts that descending order qualifying is unfair?

malmo wrote:

Only 3 of the top 8 would have qualified for the NCAAs with a descending order scheme.

NCAA Place and descending order qualifying

1. (1) Sam Chelanga

2. (44) John Kosgei

3. (18) Jake Riley

4. (25) Mohammed Ahmed

5. (45) Kiel Uhl

6. (56) Joe Bosshard

7. (57) Ben Cheruiyot

8. (19) Alfred Kipchumba

Maybe the ones who got left out would have beat these guys. Ever think of that?

I just did the same on you other thread.

The facts seem to be pretty clear.

They got left out cuz they weren't in shape. Period.

I'm not going to argue one way or another but I think it is safe to say that some of those 8 probably would have run a faster 10k during the season if they had to.

your a moran wrote:

Maybe the ones who got left out would have beat these guys. Ever think of that?

Ever think?

You sound like a Pre fan with endless Coulda Shoulda Wouldas

Running a time trial at Stanford or Mt SAC is not the same as competition. The fact is those who don't have the advantage of climate-controlled time trials whupped up on the at the Regionals and again tonight.

At Regionals,

#'s 7,11,11,12,15,17 and 23 showed they weren't competitive when it counted and DNF's None of thme has any claim to be in Eugene.

#'s 6,8,10,13,20,21 and 24 couldn't even break 30:00 at Regionals, proving that none of them had any claim to be in Eugene.

At Nationals.

Of the top 24 descending Chelenga held his rank.

2nd ranked Chris Barnicle DNF'd

3rd, 4th, and 5th ranked runners showed that time trial performances mean squat when it comes to competition.

Except for Chelenga, all of the gamers had poor descending rankings.

Descending order rankings are a very poor way of filling the fields at Nationals.

Ahmed's first race of the season was his 29:02 victory at Big Tens. He qualified at Regionals just a couple of seconds out of first (29:3x in the Texas heat) and this is his third race.

malmo wrote:

Only 3 of the top 8 would have qualified for the NCAAs with a descending order scheme.

NCAA Place and descending order qualifying

1. (1) Sam Chelanga

2. (44) John Kosgei

3. (18) Jake Riley

4. (25) Mohammed Ahmed

5. (45) Kiel Uhl

6. (56) Joe Bosshard

7. (57) Ben Cheruiyot

8. (19) Alfred Kipchumba

None of them tried to run fast because no one had to.

Not a Pre Fan, just using logic.

John Kosgei for example easily could have jumped in a 10k at Mt Sac or stanford and run 28:30's but Dave Smith was probably confident that he could make it to Regionals with a conference time and decided to save the energy. Looks like a smart decision, Maybe some of the people who lined up at Stanford and ran 28:30's could have used some of the same thinking.

lol wrote:

None of them tried to run fast because no one had to.

And what explains the runners who ran fast at Stanford who couldn't run worth shit at regionals and nationals? Did they not run fast when it mattered because "they didn't have to"?

You're a f***ing fool.

The much maligned BCS is the best system that Hollywood Television Execuitives have ever devised. NCAA T&F should use the BCS computers and software to seed the races. However I would suggest changing the criteria to rate the best runners the highest ranking, rather than using the predicted advertising revenue of the college team as the main criteria for seeding the BCS football brackets.

XC 2010 wrote:

Not a Pre Fan, just using logic..

Here's logic delivered with a sledgehammer:

A descending order qualification for Nationals would have put the following athletes in the NCAA Field. NOT ONE OF THEM would have deserved to be there.

8 Diego Estrada N. Arizona

21 Brendan Gregg Stanford

20 Jake Schmitt Washington

6 Scott Smith Santa Barbara

13 Jonathan Kotter BYU

10 Keith Gerrard New Mexico

24 Brian McKenna Utah State

7 Eric Fernandez Arkansas

9 Jon Grey William & Mary

11 Solomon Haile Arkansas

12 Jesse Cherry High Point

15 Lane Boyer Arkansas

17 Ben Ashkettle N. Arizona

23 Marco Anzures UCLA

Trial by fire is the only fair way of qualifying for nationals.

Unfair? Not so much. As with the Olympic Trials, anyone who should be there will be there, regardless of qualifying method.

I do think it robs the sport of compelling competition, though.

failed logic wrote:

lol wrote:

None of them tried to run fast because no one had to.

And what explains the runners who ran fast at Stanford who couldn't run worth shit at regionals and nationals? Did they not run fast when it mattered because "they didn't have to"?

You're a f***ing fool.

You seem like an angry person. You should probably drink some more redbull and go punch a wall.

Anyway. I wouldn't have used the same words as lol but like I said before I have very little doubt that more than 3 of the 8 scoring runners in the 10k would have made it to nationals no matter what system was in place to chose them.

I agree completely; however, one complaint that people had of the regional system has been shown to be true: the west is so much better at distance (look at the 10k and 1500 so far) than the east that it is somewhat unfair that the nationals field is made of half and half. I think the best system would be the originally proposed one; one super prelim meet two weeks before the finals in one location, not two.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot wrote:

Unfair? Not so much. As with the Olympic Trials, anyone who should be there will be there, regardless of qualifying method.

I do think it robs the sport of compelling competition, though.

Non sequitur.

The Olympic Trials has an 18 month window of opportunity. Additionally OT qualifying is not first 24 based on time, it is a set time standard. If you make the mark, you're in. With descending order qualifying you don't know what the mark is.

Finally, in college competition, most athletes will be competing in Conference Championships at exactly the time they should be at their best fitness. Outside of the sprints, college championships don't really lend themselves to time-trial situations.

XC 2010 wrote:

Anyway. I wouldn't have used the same words as lol but like I said before I have very little doubt that more than 3 of the 8 scoring runners in the 10k would have made it to nationals no matter what system was in place to chose them.

I doubt it. You still would have had at least 10 athletes in the field who ran fast in April who couldn't win a Turkey Trot in June.

At National Championships what you did 2 months ago is meaningless.

What other sport is there that proposes exemptions for being hot at the wrong time? Do we reward football teams for going undefeated and running up the score in September? How about basketball, does winning the Great Alaska shootout give an auto-entry into March Madness? Have you ever heard of a baseball player being called 'Mr May', or is it 'Mr October'?

Descending order is idiotic ... and candy-assed.