Anyone train on the no-plan plan?

Yes, I do this because every time i write down something, it goes wrong so I just do whatever. Sometimes I will do a workout a day for 2 straight weeks, very enjoyable as long as you don't really care about the end result.

agree wrote:

Yes, I do this because every time i write down something, it goes wrong so I just do whatever. Sometimes I will do a workout a day for 2 straight weeks, very enjoyable as long as you don't really care about the end result.

So does that mean the end result is not good? By end result I assume you mean race results.

And yeah, I would think it would be more enjoyable for me. Maybe that is more important than the end result, but it would surprise me if it lead to slower races. Guess I'll find out!

Nobody does this?

I do it, however I'm also a slow runner who realizes I'll very lucky to ever do a sub 17 5k

I do it. I might have guidelines though. As in, I might try to be atleast over 10 miles a few days per week.

I actually do this quite a bit. I'll be at work and think "hmmm, maybe I'll do tempo tonight" then I'll get home, feel like crap and just do an easy 8. Other times I go out planning on doing something easy, start feeling good, and turn it into a power run or whatever. The only time I really plan is, like you said, for a long run or I'm meeting someone for a track workout. Otherwise it's just whatever. I do enjoy running a lot more doing it this way.

frozen north wrote:

Anyone that plans races ever not make a race cycle plan or even daily plan and just go out and just run whatever you feel like on the given day? Workouts made up on the spot? Mileage not counted up until the end of the week? Running fast or long when you feel up to it and cutting the run short if you feel like it?

Always have.

I haven't counted miles at all for about 3 years now.

I just train.

Long Run - Jogging - Intervals - Jogging - Tempo run - Jogging - Intervals - Jogging - More Interals - Jogging - Long run.

It got me a 28:36 so I guess it works!

malmo wrote:

frozen north wrote:

Anyone that plans races ever not make a race cycle plan or even daily plan and just go out and just run whatever you feel like on the given day? Workouts made up on the spot? Mileage not counted up until the end of the week? Running fast or long when you feel up to it and cutting the run short if you feel like it?

Always have.

Yes, you have. I think maybe that's where I got the idea from!

Thanks for the responses, everyone. Most runners I know are numbers geeks but I think the numbers are killing me.

frozen north wrote:

Yes, you have. I think maybe that's where I got the idea from!

Thanks for the responses, everyone. Most runners I know are numbers geeks but I think the numbers are killing me.

Frozen north, don't get the idea that "no plan" is the same as "no clue." I had the advantage of years of experience, training with some of the most successful runners this country has produced. Also, from a very young age it was imbued in me the concept of listening to my body.

"No plan" training is a lot like jazz improvisation. You know what key you're playing in, you generally know what the most likely chord progressions are, and you just play.

In running, as in music, many people are just reading from sheet music, and the end result is a flat and uninspired performance. Humans are living, breathing, organic creatures. There's no reason why your training can't be a reflection of your humanity.

A little story. In my running days I was visiting my girlfriend in Portland (OR) and she thought she'd impress her running-geek acquaintances by inviting me to a Sunday brunch. It sounded fun to me. As it turned out the host was none other than Tom Derderian. Inevitably, I was cornered in running-geek hell, and these two knuckleheads wanted to know what I had planned for the week. I said, "I don't know". To a running geek "I don't know" can't be reconciled -- they already know how many times they're going to pick their noses in the upcoming week. After repeatedly asking, as if I was hiding a secret workout from them, I relented and told them my plan. It said, "I'm going to go for a run tomorrow morning and see how I feel." That, of course, wasn't enough for them, so i said, "then I'm going to drive to Eugene and go for another run." Still not enough, by now they were pulling teeth, "After that I'm going to call Dave Gordon (his group included Greg Lautenslager, Jeff Drenth and sometimes Alan Scharsu) and see what he has planned. If it sounds like something I want to do, I'll do it. If not I'll do something else." Those running geeks were aghast.

I don't have a specific plan but I had a large general plan of as many miles as possible from jan-mar. Transition to faster running in april and may and then do some speed workouts and race a lot in the summer.

About six weeks ago, I started my faster running and lasted 3 days. After a day off, I lasted another 3 days. I have now been doing 3 days hard with a day off the last 6 weeks and I love it. I may do a hill fartlek, run fast on flat, hit the state park for some steep hills and trails, or run a race depending on how I feel, what the weather is and which way the wind is blowing.

I was just thinking this evening whether I wanted to do a downhill fartlek on my run tomorrow instead of the usual uphill fartleks I do. I will probably decide as I step out the door tomorrow.

I did not achieve the results of malmo or Tom Derderian but starting when I was in my early 30s I just ran. I trained and raced on the no-plan non-plan. I would usually run whatever the others of the Saturday/Sunday Group were running but never intervals. Faster running was done through racing or fartlek. I would add and subtract distance to the workout as I felt like it. Most weeks I took 1-3 days off. I would wake up on a week-end morning and suddenly decide I would see what race had been sceduled in the area and then run it. I ran all of the local championships "for the team". I raced or ran all distances up to and including two 50Ks. I sometimes ran in a marathon as merely a training run. In 1971, at age 35, I had my best year on the roads and at age 36 I ran my best marathon after 12 years of marathon racing and running. I feel that runners today are too caught up in times, pacing, planning and details. I often ran races to compete and for placement. I wonder if runners today have as much fun as we did.

yup i'm the same way. in HS i was so mechanical and regimented and time-oriented and i kept a log and everything was so detailed.

now? i just run. i like variety. variety of locations, paces, solo/group, soccer (all game i just run around chasing the ball, such a good workout). i lost my watch, which i'm thankful for. i have no idea what my mileage is, but it's getting larger and larger. i like my long runs to be longer and longer and longer until i can run 100 miles or whatever the human limit is. it's fun, i feel fit and happy.

I would say this method would work for many runners. Especially those that get all tense when race time comes, or feel sick etc.

If you have no plan, there is no pressure. You say to yourself " I am feeling really fit, I should look for a race now."

Then you just race when you are fit, not when you just schedule it. Because, who knows if you are going to be fit when you race otherwise?

I tried this method, but whenever I started my run and asked myself what I wanted to do I would always end up on my couch drinking beers. Am I doing something wrong?

As a runner-geek who is slightly aghast but trying to be open-minded, would you at least have the thought process of something like -

"Well, I know I want to get in a long run at some point this week. And we're in track season and I have a mile race in two weeks so I should probably get on the track to do some quarters at some point. I'll need to be sharp so I should throw in some fast strides or sprints somewhere in there too."

Did you at least have that much of a plan? I feel like I would be lost if I didn't plan my ingredients based on where in the season I was. Even if not every day is planned out, did you have some idea of what you wanted to do in a given week or month?

Hands down post of the year. As a life long competitive runner hanging in the sub-elite bubble, not until the past year have I seen the gains I've always targeted. Once I shed the stress of expectations and started to enjoy running, my times melted away all without a structured plan. The flexibility of listening to your body curbs injuries and eases workout/race anxiety issues.

My advice, just try it for a little while, and if you don't like it then just go back to counting tenths of a mile on your Garmin.

I do this. I think it goes with being an old man which I am. I do have a tendency to plan one workout ahead though. The workout I run today tends to dictate the next workout, what is needed, etc.