Brojos say it is a fair question: Is Ritz on drugs?

I would say it's suspicious, but trafeh's 1:00:40 is pretty suspect as well I'd say

Wejo dropped his 10K time rather quickly so it is fair then to point the drug finger at him since he could never duplicate that time again. Others think he ran 6 miles rather than 10K. Apparently, according to Wejo, this is fair speculation.

Wejo had the money and connections to get as much EPO or other PEDs as he wanted.

Barry Abercrombie wrote:

Cabada and Trafeh have as much natural talent as Ritz. The reason they were not as fast in high school was because of crappy coaches and difficult living conditions. It just took more time for their talent to manifest itself because they are attempting to be world class runners with no money and lacking a stable training environment.

Cabada and Trafeh are not as talented as someone who murdered Alan Webb and Ryan Hall at Footlocker, and finished third at World Junior XC, not to mention 13:27 as a 19-year-old, and it's not even close.

laconist 1 wrote:

Cabada and Trafeh are not as talented as someone who murdered Alan Webb and Ryan Hall at Footlocker, and finished third at World Junior XC, not to mention 13:27 as a 19-year-old, and it's not even close.

Exactly. You've gotta remember- I think it was almost universally agreed upon that Ritz was underachieving at CU (constant injuries, etc.), yet while there he still made an Olympic 10k team, won an NCAA xc title, and ran 13:2x. The kid is insanely talented, and he's tough. While I would've expected an equivalent performance in the 10k or half before the 5k, it certainly doesn't strike me as being beyond the realm of belief now that he has access to anti-gravity treadmills, all the massage/treatment he wants, etc. w/ Nike. While Hudson and Wetmore aren't bad coaches, Ritz's current situation is lightyears ahead.

As for Cabada and Trafeh- they're both certainly talented, but it's not even close.

If Ritz went to the drug fest that is Morocco and then improved that much, I'd be suspicious. Hell, I'm suspicious anyway because of Salazar.

Ritz ran 80 miles/week in high school and trained with Jason Hartmann. Trafeh had no real coach in high school and the second best runner on his team ran 18:00 for xc.

As sophomores in high school, Ritz ran 8:58 and Trafeh ran 9:08. After that the difference widened due to the training/coaching gap, not the talent gap.

I suppose Magness and Cormier have more natural talent than Cabada and Trafeh?

----

and to the next poster, now we are claiming that Ritz's times were stagnating because "...Hudson and Wetmore aren't bad coaches, Ritz's current situation is lightyears ahead." What does that imply about Trafeh's recent coaching situation? or were you implying that Hudson and Wetmore are anti-drug and in Ritz's current situation the attitude might not be as absolute?

Salazar: My desire to win, no matter what the physical pain I had to endure, would be very

hard to ignore in the current age where many athletes feel it is impossible to be competitive

against the best in the world without doping. I believe that it is currently difficult to be

among the top 5 in the world in any of the distance events without using EPO or Human

Growth Hormone.

Is his blood chemistry update?

Version 1,765,789,342 of the classic Letsrun thread.

Cabada is as talented as Ritz? Are you kidding?? lol.

Ritz is incredibly talented, however, he lacks durability. He puts together good stretches then falls apart. Last year he had some good high intensity training on top of a big base and he crushed two races, showing what we should expect from him. This year so far his efforts have only gotten him hurt again. In past marathons his body has broken down (calf and hamstring cramps) before he made it the full distance.

If he can somehow get this last piece of the puzzle and train uninterrupted for a few years we will see more AR's and maybe even some international victories, but this is much easier said than done.

I just hope he doesn't end up on the injury spin cycle like goucher and others have.

Reasonable post.

The finger pointing game has to be all in or all out.

I never understood selective finger pointing.

Everyone thinks every improvement comes about from drugs, but isn't the reason elites (and the rest of us) keep training year in and year out to improve. Isn't a big part of PR'ing big a combination of years of training and finding the right formula for yourself? I would like to see the sport allow just one person to run fast without it being drug related (especially in American distance). If people break records why is it suspect, we should end this sport if we think man has reached his limit there is no point any longer. Think about MJ, he basicly was a freak ahead of the curve and Bolt is that same freak yet ppl question the use of drugs. I remember the first time I saw MJ run the 400, I laughed and said he ran like a duck, now look at Bolt, taller than most 100 runners by alot. Can't it simiply be that their phyical uh..adatptaion puts them ahead of the rest of the world. Now turn your attention back to Ritz, why do we not question an 19 Kenyan who runs just as fast but if it's a WHITE American then we have to question drugs.

I do not believe it is fair to ask the question.

Never can tell. The drug testers can't detect most of the drugs. Ritz, Symmonds, Solinsky, Goucher, Rupp, Wheating, are names often mentioned. I hope Webb and Flanagan didn't move to Portland to partake, but I wouldn't be suprised.

Socialism Sucks wrote:

Never can tell. The drug testers can't detect most of the drugs.

Do you have some sort of publication that lists all the performance enhancing drugs, and shows that a majority of those listed are undetectable?

Barry Abercrombie wrote:

As sophomores in high school, Ritz ran 8:58 and Trafeh ran 9:08. After that the difference widened due to the training/coaching gap, not the talent gap.

You're basing your talent argument on what boys ran as 15 and 16 year olds? That's a weak argument. And I'd wager Trafeh was more physically developed/mature than Ritz as a sophomore, but that's neither here nor there.

I'm not saying Ritz is above suspicion. Sadly, no top level athlete in the sport is. My only contention is that I don't believe Trafeh is the same talent as Ritz. Perhaps I'm wrong- 60:40 for a self-coached athlete who's doing it the old fashioned way is pretty damn impressive. Cabada is not on the same level as either, talentwise.

As for Ritz's current resources, I meant exactly what I said: he has unlimited access to things like anti-gravity treadmills, massage therapy, physio therapy, etc. After every hard workout- bam, he gets a massage. Any time he starts to feel an ache, bam- he can start to proactively treat it. It's nothing new- the same thing that Goucher and others who have moved out there have said. You name me one runner who won't recover faster and be less likely to get injured with those types of resources at his/her disposal.

lohalloran wrote:

Ritz is incredibly talented, however, he lacks durability. He puts together good stretches then falls apart. Last year he had some good high intensity training on top of a big base and he crushed two races, showing what we should expect from him. This year so far his efforts have only gotten him hurt again. In past marathons his body has broken down (calf and hamstring cramps) before he made it the full distance.

If he can somehow get this last piece of the puzzle and train uninterrupted for a few years we will see more AR's and maybe even some international victories, but this is much easier said than done.

Stop making excuses for Ritz. Most runners face injuries. And Ritz over the last several years has had many years of mostly injury free running. The "Ritz is always hurt" myth is just that... a myth. Oh, of course he has had his bumps and bruises, but over the last several years? He's had many, many good stretches of 99% injury free running. He himself commented on this in a few interviews. Every time he gets a hangnail, someone makes a big deal out of simply because it comes out that he pushing his season back one race, or is running some workouts on the alter-G.

He ran some great races last year. Lets see if he can match that or surpass that. If he doesn't, and it is partly due to some injuries, that is part of the game.

After seeing Ritz nearly in tears after his 12:56 AR I do not see him has a drug cheat. I'm sorry, but that kind of passion is different than the expressionless face of Ramzi.

Easy, just google for the designer drug testing labs at UCLA. Those are the fellas who busted Balco.

Socialism Sucks wrote:

Easy, just google for the designer drug testing labs at UCLA. Those are the fellas who busted Balco.

So where's that link to the list of all the performance enhancing drugs that exist, and that a majority of them are beyond testing?