| welInow |
| ||
|
Why don't you train like a Kenyan too? Then you might actually be a half decent runner instead of a typical letsrun troll obsessed with drugs drugs drugs!?!?!? |
| tromala |
| ||
|
[quote]asdasd. wrote: Doping is the norm in Spain. quote] Some (1 is too much in this case) Spanish athletes have been caught cheating. But Florence Grifith, Marion Jones, Calvin & Alvin Harrison, Tim Montgomery, Kelli White, Regina Jacobs, Melissa Myerscough, Jerome Young, Justin Gatlin, Antonio Pettigrew, etc. are not spanish athletes. If doping were the norm, maybe more Spanish athletes would be in the top lists, and they are not. |
| :D-/-< |
| ||
Improving at a late age isn't unheard of, and no one would even bat an eye if Sergio were American or had improved from 8:00 3k -> 7:40 3k. All in all, it's just a time. He just improved a lot. He has the reason to be suspect but there are SO MANY FACTORS in play here that indicting him without any proof or shred of evidence is absurd, and you all should rethink your position before you try and tarnish our sport further. |
| European dude |
| ||
|
A lot of of the American posters on these boards appear to completely ignorant of the fact that there is no equivalent to the collegiate system of athletics in Spain. Athletics in Spain is practiced mainly through the club system which is outside of high school and college. It should not take much to work out that within such a system, the development of a Spanish athlete in the age range of 18-25 is going to be way behind that of an American athlete, such as Ritz, who has been training hard in a very competitive collegiate system during these ages. Many athletes in Spain, such as Chema Martinez (13-11 5k, 2-08 marathon), focused on their studies first up to age 25 and then started to train seriously. Taking this into context, big breakthroughs by Spanish athletes aged older than 25 years should really be no surprise. |
| deanouk |
| ||
If Sanchez had been a Kenyan, who managed to have a false birth certificate stating he was 23 and a story that he'd not trained properly before this winter and was now working with some European based group and training like never before, half the posters on here would eulogize about what a great find he was. The other half would still suspect him of drugs. Lol My point is, whether he's guilty or not, and I've yet to be convinced one way or t'other, if he'd been of a different race with a different age (and we know that some athletes in the past have been older than they'd claimed!) and had the "poor kid born at altitude" story as a backdrop, many who currently suspect him of drug use, wouldn't. If we're going to be suspicious of Sanchez for showing little if any indication of greatness in his teens or early 20's, then why don't we treat all others in that group with the same way? I remember Aouita came 34th in the World X-Country champs in '78 at 18; won by an English kid called Mick Morton, who went on to do nothing in the sport. By his (Aouita's) 23rd birthday, his pb's were the following: 800m - 1:47.4 1500m - 3:37.4 5000m - 14:05. No great shakes I think we'll all agree. Within 8 months he was the World Championship bronze medallist at 1500 and had run a 3:32. In less than 2 seasons, his 5000m pb had improved by more than a minute. Sanchez had run a modest 3:39.8 1500 (worth what? 5:02 for 2000m?) and an indoors 8:07.8 3000m at 21. He improves in the next 3 years to get his 5k pb down to 13:32 at 24. Substantially faster than Aouita's best time at that age. It takes another 3 years to improve enough to run 7:32 for 3000m. So, it takes him 5 years to improve by about 10 seconds over 2000m (based on his 1500 pb at 21) It takes arguably the greatest 5000m runner of all time about 21 months to improve by a minute at that distance. Now I could have taken Aouita's name out of this and just called him athlete X, but I didn't want to insult anyone's intelligence. The fact is, given the above context, one athlete looks more likely to have used something than the other for his improvements. |
| Cheaters |
| ||
|
Dick Beardsley did not show indications of being a good runner much less an elite runner in high school and then transformed himself into sub 2:09 marathoner. Doped? Only if you think his dairy farm produced wonder milk. |
| ventolin^2 |
| ||
eh ??? you have the physics tool - use it & come up with a conversion for yourself as for sanchez & <7'30i : he damn well went out on a limb saying he thought he coud do it if he'd got 5-flat at 2k http://www.european-athletics.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8254&Itemid=2 & evidence of his vid shows he wouda done it if he'd got the wabbiting to proclaim <7'30 which only komen/geb have done is astounding for a previous "nobody" & if komen coud go 7'24.9i/7'20.6 it's pretty damn obvious a 7'28i/7'29i is worth around 7'23/7'24 outdoors
i suggest you look up the 1500pbs of the ~ 1/2 dozen guys who have run 7'25 or better - i'll cut to the chase - slowest is kennster with 3'32 if sanchez is now at the 7'25 or better level, then in order for him to have slower 1500 ability than 3'32 means his endurance is better than kennster !!! if that is not possible, then it means his current 1500 ability is <3'32 & therefore 3'31 or better
factual if he runs it it gives a guide to what he ( we ) can expect & off course 12'44 - 12'49 is astonishing for a "nobody" |
| the reality of it |
| ||
eh ??? you have the physics tool - use it & come up with a conversion for yourself as for sanchez & <7'30i : he damn well went out on a limb saying he thought he coud do it if he'd got 5-flat at 2k http://www.european-athletics.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8254&Itemid=2 & evidence of his vid shows he wouda done it if he'd got the wabbiting to proclaim <7'30 which only komen/geb have done is astounding for a previous "nobody" & if komen coud go 7'24.9i/7'20.6 it's pretty damn obvious a 7'28i/7'29i is worth around 7'23/7'24 outdoors
i suggest you look up the 1500pbs of the ~ 1/2 dozen guys who have run 7'25 or better - i'll cut to the chase - slowest is kennster with 3'32 if sanchez is now at the 7'25 or better level, then in order for him to have slower 1500 ability than 3'32 means his endurance is better than kennster !!! if that is not possible, then it means his current 1500 ability is <3'32 & therefore 3'31 or better
factual if he runs it it gives a guide to what he ( we ) can expect & off course 12'44 - 12'49 is astonishing for a "nobody"[/quote] Don't drag Komen into it...his 7:20 is one of the best records on the books, it is probably worth 7:22-7:23 indoors. Btw, Komens 7:24.9i had a 2:25 last kilometer, so it was probably worth 7:24flat if not faster. So Komen underachieved by about 2 seconds indoors, and was slowed by the shorter track by 2 seconds. 2 seconds. Not 5 or 6. Bottom line is, your calculator is fine if you know someones prs (ie, they have actually ran those times-like if I can run 1:50 and 8:00 what can I run for 1500), but if you make up numbers to plug in, the results quickly become meaningless. |
| ventolin^2 |
| ||
i'll drag who i please into it
from where ???
& he ran 1st km of his 7'20 in 2'26 which is 7'18 pace, so he underachieved by about 1.5s in his 7'20.6, if he'd gone out in more like 2'27 so now we have 7'19.0 /7'24.0i wanna apply that conversion again ??
no in 25y time, top 5k guys will be running off maybe 3'25 / 7'10 i can tell you now that they'll be looking for ~ 12'21.3 off those ( & you can throw in 25'49.2 for good measure ) |
| Relays |
| ||
|
Do know how to properly type times? right now it looks like you have 12 foot 21.3. Just saying. |
| ventolin^2 |
| ||
|
|
| a miler |
| ||
eh ??? you have the physics tool - use it & come up with a conversion for yourself as for sanchez & <7'30i : he damn well went out on a limb saying he thought he coud do it if he'd got 5-flat at 2k http://www.european-athletics.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8254&Itemid=2 & evidence of his vid shows he wouda done it if he'd got the wabbiting to proclaim <7'30 which only komen/geb have done is astounding for a previous "nobody" & if komen coud go 7'24.9i/7'20.6 it's pretty damn obvious a 7'28i/7'29i is worth around 7'23/7'24 outdoors
i suggest you look up the 1500pbs of the ~ 1/2 dozen guys who have run 7'25 or better - i'll cut to the chase - slowest is kennster with 3'32 if sanchez is now at the 7'25 or better level, then in order for him to have slower 1500 ability than 3'32 means his endurance is better than kennster !!! if that is not possible, then it means his current 1500 ability is <3'32 & therefore 3'31 or better
factual if he runs it it gives a guide to what he ( we ) can expect & off course 12'44 - 12'49 is astonishing for a "nobody"[/quote] I did take a look at the time calculator you posted earlier and the lane adjustment wasn't working for me for some reason. Either way, it only accounts for flat tracks - your extra 'adjustment' for a banked track is purely speculative. We can sit around all day and speculate on what he MIGHT be capable of, but the bottom line is that until he actually runs those otherworldly times, his improvement isn't anything special. It is not at all obvious that a time ran indoors is worth another, faster time outdoors - as I said before, there are some athletes that just run better/faster indoors. Eamonn Coughlan's mile PB is from an indoor race. By your logic he should have been bumping elbows with Coe and Ovett at 3:45 with his indoor time of 3:50, when in reality he was nowhere close. Just one example. Incidentally, Sanchez's previous 3000m PB was set indoors, indicating that he might be a better indoor runner. Personally, I expect him to run around 7:29 and sub 13 outdoors - a fantastic improvement, no doubt, but not the ridiculous times of 7:23/12:45 that you give him. |
| Suspect numero uno |
| ||
If Sanchez had been a Kenyan, who managed to have a false birth certificate stating he was 23 and a story that he'd not trained properly before this winter and was now working with some European based group and training like never before, half the posters on here would eulogize about what a great find he was. The other half would still suspect him of drugs. Lol My point is, whether he's guilty or not, and I've yet to be convinced one way or t'other, if he'd been of a different race with a different age (and we know that some athletes in the past have been older than they'd claimed!) and had the "poor kid born at altitude" story as a backdrop, many who currently suspect him of drug use, wouldn't. If we're going to be suspicious of Sanchez for showing little if any indication of greatness in his teens or early 20's, then why don't we treat all others in that group with the same way? I remember Aouita came 34th in the World X-Country champs in '78 at 18; won by an English kid called Mick Morton, who went on to do nothing in the sport. By his (Aouita's) 23rd birthday, his pb's were the following: 800m - 1:47.4 1500m - 3:37.4 5000m - 14:05. No great shakes I think we'll all agree. Within 8 months he was the World Championship bronze medallist at 1500 and had run a 3:32. In less than 2 seasons, his 5000m pb had improved by more than a minute. Sanchez had run a modest 3:39.8 1500 (worth what? 5:02 for 2000m?) and an indoors 8:07.8 3000m at 21. He improves in the next 3 years to get his 5k pb down to 13:32 at 24. Substantially faster than Aouita's best time at that age. It takes another 3 years to improve enough to run 7:32 for 3000m. So, it takes him 5 years to improve by about 10 seconds over 2000m (based on his 1500 pb at 21) It takes arguably the greatest 5000m runner of all time about 21 months to improve by a minute at that distance. Now I could have taken Aouita's name out of this and just called him athlete X, but I didn't want to insult anyone's intelligence. The fact is, given the above context, one athlete looks more likely to have used something than the other for his improvements.[/quote] What makes you think Aouita was clean? Because he never failed a test? LOL!!!! |
| creep |
| ||
|
ever heard of a "Dirty Sanchez" ? |
| the reality of it |
| ||
You are assuming that 7:19o=7:24i. Maybe one race is better than the next one, maybe an athlete runs better indoors or outdoors, maybe he was in slightly better shape for his 7:20 than his 7:24. Komen is a runner, not a robot. And ok, so he ran the first 1k at 7:18 pace...2 seconds under what he actually ran. He ran 2:26/2:27/2:27...if that is not near-ideal pacing I don't know what is. He also had pacing until 1950m, perfect conditions and a fast track. But if you want to take 1.5 seconds off, go for it.
Ha! Where are you getting those times? With the exception of Kenenisa Bekele and Bernard Lagat, no one has broken 3:28 OR 7:27 since the current world record holders over a decade ago. And don't meantion that druggie Ali Saïdi-Sief. Golden League races are still being won in 3:30-3:32 and 7:30-7:35, same as 30 years ago. 3:25 is realistic. Predicting 7:10 just makes you look like a moron. |
| ventolin^2 |
| ||
how about another non-robot in kennster ? he ran in '07 : 7'30.51i/7'25.79 what's the conversion ?
certainly not ideal he got slower with each km ~2'26.2 ( 7'18.6 ) / 4'53.4 (2'27.2 ( 7'21.6 )) / 7'20.67 ( 2'27.27 ( 7'21.81 ) the 1st km was too fast & he paid for it - instead of close to 7'19-flat he went high-7'20
imbecile you can't do simple arithmetic komen was ~ 3'30/7'20 knock 5s of 1500 & by implication double that off the 3k work it out... |
| kartelite |
| ||
I just got stupider for reading that. |
| Chespice |
| ||
Why is it so rediculous that he cheated? Give me one good reason? People on dairy farms don't cheat? Because he is such a swell guy? Because you met him once? Because he be a white American guy? Floyd Landis was a fvken menonite for christ sake. |
| Kenenisa Bekele |
| ||
How about Eamon Coglan? he ran in '83: 3:49.78i on wooden track/ 3:51.59 outdoor best. You sir, are an idiot. And stop calling me Kennster less you want me to bitch slap you. |
| Danny Komen |
| ||
|
Dudes, leave me out of this. That 7:20 is legit. Clean as a whistle I was. I trained with Bob Kennedy so ask him. He'd run sub 4 minute miles in training and still be 20 meters behind. No tricks here fellas, I was just one fast mofo. |