denizen
How to run 6:30 pace for 10k (40 minutes) 11/29/2009 4:02PM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I am training to run 10k under 40 minutes. I am a novice runner, and I can run a 10k in 50 minutes, so I need to improve my time by about 10 minutes, which is quite a lot.

My eventual goal is to run the NYC marathon in 2010 under 3 hrs. I ran the NYC marathon about 9 years ago at 4:05, so I am looking to improve my time by A LOT.

Someone on this board suggested that I find out if I can run a 10k under 40 minutes first.. I agree that it's probably better to start there.

Is there a training program that you'd recommend? I am going to see if I can run the central park big loop (6.1 miles) every morning and see how my legs hold up.

Some info about me. I am 5' 9", 175 lbs. I was about 165 lbs when I was in college. I am 35yrs old, male.
I've been running about once a week, and I am going to run a 10k every morning. Is this the right approach to improve my time? Should I be doing some speed training also in-between? I play full court basketball twice a week for 2 hours at a time, and I am wondering if this will help or hinder my training.

Thanks for your feedback.
Smartrunner
RE: How to run 6:30 pace for 10k (40 minutes) 11/29/2009 4:35PM - in reply to denizen Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I just got off the phone with Krista Austin-Meb Keflezighi's physiologist....she sounds pretty good-she might be able to help you out. She's going to work on a training program with me for my next few races.

Kevin
biggus dickus
RE: How to run 6:30 pace for 10k (40 minutes) 11/29/2009 4:40PM - in reply to Smartrunner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
How about just start running and build up a base. Sounds like you want a silver bullet and instant satisfaction. At you age and goal, not likely. To start just start running some real milage (40-50/week) and then you can start thinking about getting "fancy"....
ming ding xiong
RE: How to run 6:30 pace for 10k (40 minutes) 11/29/2009 4:46PM - in reply to denizen Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Going from running once a week to everyday is a bad idea. Start with 4-5 runs, half 30 minutes or less, half at 40-50 minutes. Get to the point where you can run 4-5 times a week at 40-50 minutes, which might take 2-3 months. Some of these runs will be fast, some of these will be slow. Don't worry too much about that.

From there, follow a cookie-cutter 10k training program from Google. If you're interested in a more technical training plan, I'd recommend Road Racing for Serious Runners by Pete Pfitzinger or Daniels' Running Formula by Jack Daniels. Those are two excellent books that will help you understand how to train.

I would definitely run at least a half marathon next spring or summer along with a 10k. It would be difficult to run a sub-3 marathon without much experience running long distances even if you have the fitness to run a sub-3 marathon (I've run a 36-minute 10k but my best marathon is 3:10). I also think it would be difficult to go from a 50-minute 10k to a sub-3 marathon in a year, so it might happen in 2011, but I would recommend patience and determination.
ex-NYC runner
RE: How to run 6:30 pace for 10k (40 minutes) 11/29/2009 6:38PM - in reply to denizen Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
connect with one of the local running clubs and you'll find lots of people who can help you reach your goals. There are a bunch, but maybe start with the NY Flyers and Greater NY. they'll offer motivation, coaching, training partners, and training programs.
rekrunner
RE: How to run 6:30 pace for 10k (40 minutes) 11/29/2009 7:28PM - in reply to denizen Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Unless you have some undiscovered talent, I would say your time targets are ambitious. In the other thread, you talked potentially about going sub-3 hours at the New York Marathon (which is not known as a fast course).

In any case, it would seem that building up your base is more important now than doing any speedwork. For example, in your 11 months, you might do base building for 8-9 months, and then jump into a typical 8-12 week marathon plan.

During that time, you can run some decent 10Ks just off your base (but of course not as fast as if you trained for 10Ks). These will give a decent idea of your ability, and a realistic marathon target.

If you have just above average talent, you might find that it takes you 11 months just to get down to a 40 minute 10K, and your NYC goal should be, first to finish, but second to finish around 3:20-3:30 (or whatever you calculate from your races plus some margin for error). Maybe a better goal, for this comeback marathon, is to try and run the second half within 5 to 10 minutes of your first half, rather than focus on any time.

As far as training, running the same 10K every morning probably lacks variety. A better approach is to mix up distance, pace, and terrain, for example, building up (over many weeks) to something like this typical week (taken from Lydiard):

Marathon Conditioning
Monday: Aerobic running 3/4 to 1 hour.
Tuesday: Aerobic running 1 to 1.5 hours.
Wednesday: Run hilly course 1/2 to 1 hour.
Thursday: Aerobic running 1 to 1.5 hours.
Friday: Jog 1/2 to 1 hour.
Saturday: Run hilly course 1/2 to 1 hour.
Sunday: Aerobic running 1.5 to 2 hours.

The idea is to slowly build-up the weekly training at an easy pace, then introduce some faster running (like tempo) on the shorter runs, a couple times a week. In place of any real speed work, you might sneak in some strides once a week, or every other week, (e.g. 4-8x200m relaxed strides) or some fartlek, and eventually some races (5K, 10K, 10 mile, and semi-marathon).

Basketball may not affect your training (unless you sprain an ankle or something), but maybe the other way around -- training can help or hinder your basketball.

But for this kind of advice, I would recommend getting a book like Daniel's Running Formula and Noake's Lore of Running. They are much more comprehensive than getting limited and conflicting training advice from pseudo-experts (like me) at letsrun.
bella harrier
RE: How to run 6:30 pace for 10k (40 minutes) 1/13/2010 2:46PM - in reply to denizen Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Try and see if you can break the 44 min barrier first then take it from there, the important thing is to build up your mileage gradually and by no more than a 10% increase per week, if you ignore this golden rule then you will more than likely get shin splints or a knee problem. In order to run a sub 3:00 hour marathon your half marathon time should be no worse than 1:23:00, and your 10k time should be around 37 mins(6 min miles). In order to run a 37 min 10k your 5k time should be 18:00 mins. Mileage and good quality speed sessions are key to distance running. Best of luck.
phonejack
RE: How to run 6:30 pace for 10k (40 minutes) 1/13/2010 2:54PM - in reply to denizen Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Get a coach or join a team. Go to the club Championships results and see if there's people hovering in your ability range. Basketball doesn't help. As soon as I ramped up my mileage my jumping ability became laughable.
Picture me trollin
RE: How to run 6:30 pace for 10k (40 minutes) 1/13/2010 3:28PM - in reply to ming ding xiong Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I disagree that you can't start running everyday. Run everyday. You should at least be able to do about 25-30 miles per week. Continue for 5 or 6 months and don't do any intense workouts or races. Run hard only when moved to do so. Run at a jogging pace if you're tired (and you will be). But just RUN. To run a decent marathon as a new runner, I'd say you need to be averaging 60 miles per week. This is probably too much for a new runner so you need to build gradually. Remember "don't train harder for the sake of training harder. Train harder to achieve better results" and "train don't strain"....

You can't run even close to your best marathon on 35 miles per week. In short, you've got to stop the crap and become an everyday runner. If you do this, chances are you'll improve so fast you'll be dying to run more and run faster. But it all starts with a little bit..which becomes a little more...which becomes a lot.

If you devoted your life to running, you'd probably run your best marathon in your early 40s or a lil later, because you need to take a good deal of time to acquire a solid aerobic base.
kudzurunner
RE: How to run 6:30 pace for 10k (40 minutes) 1/13/2010 3:38PM - in reply to denizen Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
You're 5'9 and 175. That's the problem right there. If it were me, I'd put myself on a slow weight-loss plan (3-4 pounds a month) and spend the next six month trimming at least 20-25 pounds off. I'd run mostly easy mileage, with some sort of tempo run (2-4 miles at threshold) once a week, a longer run (9-13 miles) once a week, and strides (5 x 20-30 seconds hard but relaxed, with the first stride or two a little slower) twice a week. Since you're only running once a week (!!) right now, build into all this slowly over the next two months. If your legs develop any sort of residual soreness, skip a day, then jog 3-4 miles slow until the soreness goes away.

That is ALL you need to do for the next six months. Then come back and ask the same question.

Your basketball is probably helping you stay in shape right now, but if you're serious about your racing goal, you'll give up B-ball.
caveman
RE: How to run 6:30 pace for 10k (40 minutes) 1/14/2010 2:13PM - in reply to denizen Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Try to run 2X/day, 10K each run for several months, at least, in order to build up a base. Watch Geb at 2:45 to 3:05:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRqJYt8WSo0&feature=PlayList&p=8B7F38EF24F4BBA9
Towson exile
RE: How to run 6:30 pace for 10k (40 minutes) 1/14/2010 4:04PM - in reply to denizen Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Just do what you can. Consistency is the most important part of any training program. Tiredness is part of the deal but avoid fatigue.
no supplements
RE: How to run 6:30 pace for 10k (40 minutes) 1/15/2010 12:41AM - in reply to denizen Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
put the treadmill at 6.5 pace and run for 40 minutes.
canadiancooops
RE: How to run 6:30 pace for 10k (40 minutes) 3/28/2012 10:22AM - in reply to denizen Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I started in March of 09 not being able to run more than 10 mins without stopping and by September I ran a 10k race in 40 min 23 secs

in those 6 months I was running 6 times a week, sometimes 40 mins, sometimes 2 hours but I never set a distance only time and only started recording time about a month out from the race. At that point I was at 42/43 mins

Good luck
Waka
RE: How to run 6:30 pace for 10k (40 minutes) 3/28/2012 10:28AM - in reply to canadiancooops Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Really? You could probably get to a 6:30 pace 10k withouth doing any workouts, running 5, maybe 6 times a week.
First run, go 7 minute pace for 3 miles, keep doing that everyday and after a week throw in a 4 mile run at that pace. Eventually you will be able to move up until 7 minute feels easy and just drop the pace to 6:30 some runs or go longer at 7 minute pace.
Paul Puma
RE: How to run 6:30 pace for 10k (40 minutes) 3/28/2012 12:38PM - in reply to Waka Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I remember the days when I would scoff at a running time like that....Now that I'm 40, I'm not sure if I could even run that pace for 5k...What comes around turns around, I guess...
Please correct me
RE: How to run 6:30 pace for 10k (40 minutes) 3/28/2012 2:46PM - in reply to denizen Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I wll probably catch alot of flak for this, but oh well. Try the Runner's World "Run Less Run Faster" approach. It is three key workouts a week with each key workout being for a specific purpose. The other three days a week is for cross training or easy running. It follows Daniels Formula to some degree and it is designed to take you systematically a slowly to your optimal pacing. Buy the book and check it out. You may find it is exactly what you're looking for.