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Employee #1
letsrun employee
splits say ok state ran smarter than oregon 11/23/2009 8:24PM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
i'm exhausted but i threw this together. i wanted to see what team ran the most even splits so i started w/ ok state, stanford and oregon. i can't believe fernandez was 20 seconds back from the "all-american" pack at 5k. oregon and ok state both ran well it seems. stanford 5, 6, 7 were not having the best days!

Ok State Splits: (Place, 1st 5k, 2nd 5k, difference)
Ryan Vail (9th) 14:47, 14:53 (+6)
Colby Lowe (10th) 14:48, 14:54 (+6)
John Kosgei (13th) 14:48, 15:00 (+16)
Girma Mecheso (28th) 14:47, 15:26 (+39)
German Fernandez (97th) 15:08, 15:45 (+37)
(average +21)

Stanford Splits: (Place, 1st 5k, 2nd 5k, difference)
Chris Derrick (3rd) 14:38, 14:36 (-2)
Elliot Heath (38th) 14:48, 15:31 (+43)
Jake Riley (54th) *no splits
Miles Unterreiner (117th) 15:10, 15:55 (+45)
Justin Marpole-Bird (216th) 15:23, 17:00 (+97)
Brendan Gregg (222nd) 15:41, 17:23 (+102)
Ben Johnson (230th) 15:15, 19:06 (+231)

Oregon Splits: (Place, 1st 5k, 2nd 5k, difference)
Luke Puskedra (21st) 14:46, 15:16 (+30)
Matt Centrowitz (27th) 14:54, 15:16 (+22)
Kenny Klotz (29th) 14:54, 15:20 (+26)
Danny Mercado (31st) 14:54, 15:22 (+28)
Diego Mercado (61st) 15:04, 15:31 (+27)
(average +27)
namtats
RE: splits say ok state ran smarter than oregon 11/24/2009 12:59AM - in reply to Employee #1 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Speaking of splits, check out BYU, specifically Batty and the other dude waaaay back after opening in 8:41.

Also Oklahoma's guys going out very slow, Schwab in particular picking it up mid-race.

Random, but interesting to note the Miller twins. One up front, one way back. Similar to the McClary's back in the day in WA then at Cal then at Ark. Either up in the mix or out the back door. Not Torres or Mercado-type cohesion.
statsguy
RE: splits say ok state ran smarter than oregon 11/24/2009 10:10AM - in reply to namtats Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Interestingly, only 6 people in the race finished with a faster second 5k:

David McNeill
Kevin Schwab
Mohammed Ahmed
Chris Derrick
Robert Sorrell
Emmanuel Bor

Name, Grade, Team, 2nd 5k, difference btwn 1st & 2nd 5k's
David McNeill JR NorthernArizona 14:28.5 1 - 00:09.5
Samuel Chelanga JR Liberty 14:31.3 2 00:21.3
Chris Derrick SO Stanford 14:36.8 3 - 00:01.2
Barnabas Kirui JR Mississippi 14:46.1 4 00:08.1
Dorian Ulrey JR Arkansas 14:50.9 5 00:03.9
Jordan Chipangama JR NorthernArizona 14:51.1 6 00:09.1
Brandon Bethke SR ArizonaState 14:51.3 7 00:04.3
Andrew Bumbalough SR Georgetown 14:53.1 8 00:07.1
Ryan Vail SR OklahomaState 14:53.7 9 00:06.7
Colby Lowe SO OklahomaState 14:54.4 10 00:06.4
Jacob Kirwa SR NewMexico 14:59.1 11 00:12.1
Alfred Kipchumba SO Portland 14:59.1 12 00:08.1
John Kosgei SR OklahomaState 15:00.3 13 00:12.3
Emmanuel Bor SR Alabama 15:02.8 14 - 00:00.2
Ryan Sheridan SO Iona 15:03.4 15 00:19.4
Mohammed Ahmed FR Wisconsin 15:05.4 16 -00:03.6
Felix Kiboiywo SR Auburn 15:06.3 17 00:22.3
Hassan Mead JR Minnesota 15:06.7 18 00:22.7
Jon Grey SR William&Mary 15:07.4 19 00:23.4
15:10.6 20 00:12.6
statsguy
RE: splits say ok state ran smarter than oregon 11/24/2009 10:17AM - in reply to statsguy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Also interesting is team scores throughout the race.

Although they won't be exact because there are a lot people with the same split times, it will show a little bit.
statsguy
RE: splits say ok state ran smarter than oregon 11/24/2009 10:17AM - in reply to statsguy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
At 3k:

1 Oregon 167 14 21 42 43 47 49 106
Total Time: 43:41 Average: 8:44.20 1-5 Split: 5
2 BYU 178 16 17 35 48 62 65 96
Total Time: 43:41 Average: 8:44.20 1-5 Split: 8
3 OklahomaState 183 19 20 26 51 67 68 94
Total Time: 43:44 Average: 8:44.80 1-5 Split: 8
4 Stanford 204 2 15 50 63 74 133 -
Total Time: 43:42 Average: 8:44.40 1-5 Split: 14
5 Georgetown 213 11 32 39 58 73 109 -
Total Time: 43:47 Average: 8:45.40 1-5 Split: 9
6 NewMexico 254 12 23 24 93 102 112 156
Total Time: 43:50 Average: 8:46.00 1-5 Split: 12
7 Alabama 289 25 60 61 64 79 97 208
Total Time: 44:01 Average: 8:48.20 1-5 Split: 8
8 NorthernArizona 302 1 18 57 111 115 117 144
Total Time: 43:56 Average: 8:47.20 1-5 Split: 21
9 Iona 313 3 41 56 99 114 131 139
Total Time: 43:57 Average: 8:47.40 1-5 Split: 19
10 Syracuse 324 46 59 70 72 77 85 95
Total Time: 44:05 Average: 8:49.00 1-5 Split: 5
11 William&Mary 330 13 27 78 88 124 137 145
Total Time: 44:04 Average: 8:48.80 1-5 Split: 16
12 Villanova 343 22 29 83 86 123 132 -
Total Time: 44:04 Average: 8:48.80 1-5 Split: 15
13 Virginia 380 4 28 92 101 155 178 180
Total Time: 44:07 Average: 8:49.40 1-5 Split: 25
14 Auburn 410 5 6 71 119 209 211 -
Total Time: 44:28 Average: 8:53.60 1-5 Split: 45
15 Wisconsin 414 75 80 81 87 91 118 120
Total Time: 44:16 Average: 8:51.20 1-5 Split: 1
16 Arkansas 429 9 33 108 127 152 165 185
Total Time: 44:17 Average: 8:51.40 1-5 Split: 20
17 IowaState 438 30 44 53 154 157 159 170
Total Time: 44:20 Average: 8:52.00 1-5 Split: 19
18 Washington 439 36 37 54 140 172 179 182
Total Time: 44:19 Average: 8:51.80 1-5 Split: 20
19 Portland 456 40 52 82 84 198 200 210
Total Time: 44:24 Average: 8:52.80 1-5 Split: 25
20 Providence 469 34 38 66 143 188 196 -
Total Time: 44:24 Average: 8:52.80 1-5 Split: 22
21 Louisville 498 8 89 90 153 158 164 205
Total Time: 44:27 Average: 8:53.40 1-5 Split: 22
22 Minnesota 509 7 69 116 126 191 201 204
Total Time: 44:30 Average: 8:54.00 1-5 Split: 27
23 ArizonaState 548 10 100 113 162 163 183 192
Total Time: 44:35 Average: 8:55.00 1-5 Split: 22
24 Colorado 562 98 105 110 121 128 174 206
Total Time: 44:37 Average: 8:55.40 1-5 Split: 5
25 FloridaState 573 45 55 103 184 186 190 202
Total Time: 44:38 Average: 8:55.60 1-5 Split: 20
26 NorthCarolinaSt. 612 31 122 130 136 193 195 207
Total Time: 44:46 Average: 8:57.20 1-5 Split: 24
27 OhioState 624 76 134 135 138 141 142 187
Total Time: 44:48 Average: 8:57.60 1-5 Split: 9
28 MichiganState 707 107 129 148 150 173 181 199
Total Time: 44:58 Average: 8:59.60 1-5 Split: 10
29 Texas 720 104 125 149 166 176 197 203
Total Time: 45:00 Average: 9:00.00 1-5 Split: 12
30 Oklahoma 781 146 147 160 161 167 189 194
Total Time: 45:12 Average: 9:02.40 1-5 Split: 3
31 Duke 834 151 168 169 171 175 177 -
Total Time: 45:18 Average: 9:03.60 1-5 Split: 4
statsguy
RE: splits say ok state ran smarter than oregon 11/24/2009 10:21AM - in reply to statsguy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
At 5k:

1 OklahomaState 134 13 17 20 21 63 72 104
Total Time: 1:14:16 Average: 14:51.20 1-5 Split: 19
2 Oregon 159 10 32 33 34 50 56 84
Total Time: 1:14:29 Average: 14:53.80 1-5 Split: 15
3 Alabama 218 15 46 47 53 57 61 207
Total Time: 1:14:49 Average: 14:57.80 1-5 Split: 17
4 NorthernArizona 241 1 3 55 89 93 124 163
Total Time: 1:14:46 Average: 14:57.20 1-5 Split: 34
5 Georgetown 256 9 26 37 74 110 143 -
Total Time: 1:14:57 Average: 14:59.40 1-5 Split: 32
6 BYU 271 19 41 48 68 95 101 129
Total Time: 1:15:01 Average: 15:00.20 1-5 Split: 26
7 Villanova 304 23 24 64 87 106 176 -
Total Time: 1:15:13 Average: 15:02.60 1-5 Split: 29
8 NewMexico 313 14 29 49 109 112 119 173
Total Time: 1:15:15 Average: 15:03.00 1-5 Split: 32
9 William&Mary 322 7 38 66 79 132 161 169
Total Time: 1:15:21 Average: 15:04.20 1-5 Split: 41
10 Iona 330 4 54 58 88 126 142 188
Total Time: 1:15:25 Average: 15:05.00 1-5 Split: 39
11 Stanford 339 2 22 86 102 127 184 -
Total Time: 1:15:14 Average: 15:02.80 1-5 Split: 45
12 Syracuse 368 45 60 75 90 98 99 100
Total Time: 1:15:35 Average: 15:07.00 1-5 Split: 17
13 Portland 381 25 27 51 82 196 202 206
Total Time: 1:15:47 Average: 15:09.40 1-5 Split: 1:03
14 Virginia 384 18 39 91 103 133 166 168
Total Time: 1:15:35 Average: 15:07.00 1-5 Split: 38
15 Wisconsin 392 70 71 76 78 97 118 120
Total Time: 1:15:47 Average: 15:09.40 1-5 Split: 5
16 IowaState 405 30 35 43 145 152 154 165
Total Time: 1:15:39 Average: 15:07.80 1-5 Split: 39
17 Auburn 427 5 8 65 140 209 211 -
Total Time: 1:16:23 Average: 15:16.60 1-5 Split: 1:38
18 Colorado 454 67 80 92 94 121 159 203
Total Time: 1:16:03 Average: 15:12.60 1-5 Split: 13
19 Washington 466 36 40 73 150 167 174 181
Total Time: 1:16:00 Average: 15:12.00 1-5 Split: 40
20 Providence 470 28 42 69 146 185 192 -
Total Time: 1:16:04 Average: 15:12.80 1-5 Split: 51
21 Minnesota 512 6 96 107 108 195 197 201
Total Time: 1:16:25 Average: 15:17.00 1-5 Split: 1:08
22 Arkansas 516 11 77 128 136 164 171 187
Total Time: 1:16:18 Average: 15:15.60 1-5 Split: 46
23 Louisville 522 16 62 83 179 182 190 208
Total Time: 1:16:18 Average: 15:15.60 1-5 Split: 52
24 ArizonaState 538 12 81 117 158 170 172 199
Total Time: 1:16:22 Average: 15:16.40 1-5 Split: 48
25 NorthCarolinaSt. 566 31 85 125 134 191 204 210
Total Time: 1:16:35 Average: 15:19.00 1-5 Split: 53
26 OhioState 579 59 111 114 138 157 186 193
Total Time: 1:16:40 Average: 15:20.00 1-5 Split: 26
27 FloridaState 579 44 52 122 178 183 189 200
Total Time: 1:16:39 Average: 15:19.80 1-5 Split: 44
28 Oklahoma 658 115 116 130 144 153 160 194
Total Time: 1:17:02 Average: 15:24.40 1-5 Split: 10
29 Texas 678 113 123 139 148 155 198 205
Total Time: 1:17:07 Average: 15:25.40 1-5 Split: 12
30 MichiganState 713 105 135 147 151 175 177 180
Total Time: 1:17:15 Average: 15:27.00 1-5 Split: 19
31 Duke 714 131 137 141 149 156 162 -
Total Time: 1:17:17 Average: 15:27.40 1-5 Split: 6
statsguy
RE: splits say ok state ran smarter than oregon 11/24/2009 10:23AM - in reply to statsguy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Score at 8K:

1 OklahomaState 102 4 6 13 20 59 87 127
Total Time: 1:59:35 Average: 23:55.00 1-5 Split: 45
2 Oregon 140 14 25 26 27 48 85 129
Total Time: 2:00:20 Average: 24:04.00 1-5 Split: 34
3 Alabama 182 15 23 24 56 64 78 205
Total Time: 2:00:50 Average: 24:10.00 1-5 Split: 43
4 NorthernArizona 208 1 3 58 67 79 116 160
Total Time: 2:00:40 Average: 24:08.00 1-5 Split: 1:13
5 William&Mary 237 16 31 44 46 100 159 175
Total Time: 2:01:25 Average: 24:17.00 1-5 Split: 1:03
6 NewMexico 315 7 39 55 99 115 124 136
Total Time: 2:02:13 Average: 24:26.60 1-5 Split: 1:13
7 Wisconsin 324 34 49 57 76 108 130 148
Total Time: 2:02:29 Average: 24:29.80 1-5 Split: 43
8 Villanova 330 29 35 71 97 98 191 -
Total Time: 2:02:27 Average: 24:29.40 1-5 Split: 42
9 Iona 331 12 36 68 81 134 158 199
Total Time: 2:02:13 Average: 24:26.60 1-5 Split: 1:19
10 Colorado 347 38 60 61 69 119 123 202
Total Time: 2:02:43 Average: 24:32.60 1-5 Split: 45
11 Portland 357 18 19 52 84 184 201 203
Total Time: 2:02:34 Average: 24:30.80 1-5 Split: 1:54
12 BYU 367 50 54 75 93 95 132 156
Total Time: 2:02:53 Average: 24:34.60 1-5 Split: 25
13 Virginia 376 37 43 82 103 111 142 165
Total Time: 2:02:59 Average: 24:35.80 1-5 Split: 42
14 Syracuse 383 41 42 89 101 110 118 166
Total Time: 2:03:05 Average: 24:37.00 1-5 Split: 38
15 IowaState 429 30 33 107 120 139 146 172
Total Time: 2:03:18 Average: 24:39.60 1-5 Split: 1:00
16 Georgetown 434 11 28 83 149 163 178 -
Total Time: 2:03:08 Average: 24:37.60 1-5 Split: 1:37
17 Oklahoma 443 73 74 91 92 113 151 189
Total Time: 2:03:36 Average: 24:43.20 1-5 Split: 24
18 Stanford 457 2 32 88 154 181 192 -
Total Time: 2:03:14 Average: 24:38.80 1-5 Split: 2:15
19 ArizonaState 478 10 62 102 143 161 170 198
Total Time: 2:03:39 Average: 24:43.80 1-5 Split: 1:37
20 Providence 481 45 53 66 140 177 190 -
Total Time: 2:03:52 Average: 24:46.40 1-5 Split: 1:14
21 Minnesota 485 9 90 94 105 187 193 195
Total Time: 2:04:00 Average: 24:48.00 1-5 Split: 2:06
22 Auburn 493 8 17 109 152 207 - -
Total Time: 2:04:43 Average: 24:56.60 1-5 Split: 3:14
23 OhioState 501 40 86 106 131 138 188 197
Total Time: 2:04:03 Average: 24:48.60 1-5 Split: 50
24 NorthCarolinaSt. 503 22 63 112 126 180 206 209
Total Time: 2:04:11 Average: 24:50.20 1-5 Split: 1:36
25 Louisville 510 21 70 72 171 176 194 208
Total Time: 2:04:00 Average: 24:48.00 1-5 Split: 1:36
26 Washington 554 47 51 137 155 164 185 -
Total Time: 2:04:30 Average: 24:54.00 1-5 Split: 1:03
27 Arkansas 558 5 65 157 162 169 174 183
Total Time: 2:04:27 Average: 24:53.40 1-5 Split: 1:42
28 Duke 611 96 121 122 128 144 150 -
Total Time: 2:04:59 Average: 24:59.80 1-5 Split: 21
29 Texas 625 77 104 135 141 168 196 204
Total Time: 2:05:09 Average: 25:01.80 1-5 Split: 48
30 MichiganState 642 114 117 125 133 153 173 179
Total Time: 2:05:20 Average: 25:04.00 1-5 Split: 20
31 FloridaState 721 80 145 147 167 182 186 200
Total Time: 2:06:14 Average: 25:14.80 1-5 Split: 1:06
festaval
RE: splits say ok state ran smarter than oregon 11/24/2009 11:21AM - in reply to Employee #1 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
how does this suggest in any way that OK STate ran smarter? what's the criteria? is it running a more even pace? if so, it looks like everyone was about the same spot at 5K and the stanford guys just couldn't hold it.
here is my view
RE: splits say ok state ran smarter than oregon 11/24/2009 11:22AM - in reply to Employee #1 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Here is my view but I'm not saying I'm right. I actually think Oregon ran a little smarter by taking it out a little slower. I don't think they had the fitness that the OSU guys didm and therefore lost more time on the second 5k. Maybe if Oregon ran conservative with 15 flat back to back they could have held that better??

Again, I think the OSU guys were more fit so it wouldn't have made much of a difference in the end. Either way, it was a great race.
Best Pacing team
RE: splits say ok state ran smarter than oregon 11/24/2009 12:06PM - in reply to Employee #1 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
That's a great observation... Notice that Colorado Probably had the best pacing of all clubs and finished 6th overall.... It's a good thing they don't give out awards or places for 3k.... CU was 24th at 3k, 18th at 5k, 10th at 8k and end up with a solid 6th place finish. Disciplined running and solid coaching
pointer outer of the obvious
RE: splits say ok state ran smarter than oregon 11/24/2009 12:13PM - in reply to Employee #1 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Actually the splits say nothing about who ran smarter. The final results say that OK state ran smarter because THEY WON THE FRICKING RACE!
NCAA Goer
RE: splits say ok state ran smarter than oregon 11/24/2009 12:23PM - in reply to Best Pacing team Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Best Pacing team wrote:

That's a great observation... Notice that Colorado Probably had the best pacing of all clubs and finished 6th overall.... It's a good thing they don't give out awards or places for 3k.... CU was 24th at 3k, 18th at 5k, 10th at 8k and end up with a solid 6th place finish. Disciplined running and solid coaching


Colorado also ran without their #1 guy, which is makes their accomplishment even more impressive. I also thought the Martin Smith coached Sooners ran impressively and definitely maximized their potential - great young squad...
NCAA Fan
RE: splits say ok state ran smarter than oregon 11/24/2009 12:27PM - in reply to pointer outer of the obvious Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
pointer outer of the obvious wrote:

Actually the splits say nothing about who ran smarter. The final results say that OK state ran smarter because THEY WON THE FRICKING RACE!


No, the splits DO give a fair picture of who ran smart. The overall results show who had enough talent to have some guys race extremely well, some average, and some off and still win.
My .01x2$
RE: splits say ok state ran smarter than oregon 11/24/2009 2:23PM - in reply to NCAA Fan Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
The splits show Oregon ran smarter. Despite not being even close to the class of the field coming in, they ran a race that allowed them to be in contention for the win. Smart race for them.
Sherlock
RE: splits say ok state ran smarter than oregon 11/24/2009 2:47PM - in reply to pointer outer of the obvious Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
pointer outer of the obvious wrote:

Actually the splits say nothing about who ran smarter. The final results say that OK state ran smarter because THEY WON THE FRICKING RACE!


Exactly what I was thinking when I saw the thread title.
coachkritter
RE: splits say ok state ran smarter than oregon 11/25/2009 12:23AM - in reply to Sherlock Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
U of Oklahoma moved up from 17th to 12 over the last 2k!
RacingFlats
RE: splits say ok state ran smarter than oregon 11/25/2009 12:31AM - in reply to My .01x2$ Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I agree that it was Oregon who ran the smarter race. They came in ranked #8. For the race, the strategy was to have Puskedra sacrificed personal placing for the overall team placing, by setting a pace that his teammates could hang close to as a pack. Their goal was a 30 second spread from 1 to 5, and they actually achieved a 33 second spread. Vin's belief was that they might contend if they had a 30 second spread, and the results show what a genius he is.
7a hudcx75 x 7se5
RE: splits say ok state ran smarter than oregon 11/25/2009 7:41AM - in reply to RacingFlats Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I didn't see the race and the coverage of the pack was poor. Did Oregon actually use that strategy or does it just look like it from the stats?
GOOD DEAL!!!
RE: splits say ok state ran smarter than oregon 11/25/2009 2:27PM - in reply to 7a hudcx75 x 7se5 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Hey nice post interesting info! Thanks for all the info.
RacingFlats
RE: splits say ok state ran smarter than oregon 11/25/2009 2:32PM - in reply to 7a hudcx75 x 7se5 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Oregon actually used that strategy. I listened to a post-race interview of Lananna where he said that the 30 second spread was the team strategy going in.
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