How fast do you have to be to walk onto Brown University XC w/o getting cut by the coach?

WalkOn to IvyLeague wrote:

Say I'm a high school kid who maybe ran low 18s for 5k, who can't break 29 minutes for 5 miles, and I go to Cornell, try to walk on the XC team, at what point would I burst Rojo's bubble to the point he wouldn't let me come to practice for being too slow?

If you're running low 18s for 5k, it's doubtful that you can break 31 minutes for 5 miles, let alone 29 minutes.

brown doesn't really take walk ons. even some recruits get cut.

WalkOn to IvyLeague wrote:

How fast do you have to be (as a male) to walk onto Brown University XC team w/o getting cut from the team (not allowed to show up at practice) by the coach?

I'd imagine if you run around 28 minutes in 5 mile races you can walk on, but how about 29 minutes?

2nd question:

Say I'm a high school kid who maybe ran low 18s for 5k, who can't break 29 minutes for 5 miles, and I go to Cornell, try to walk on the XC team, at what point would I burst Rojo's bubble to the point he wouldn't let me come to practice for being too slow?

I don't understand the question. Do you plan to be allowed to walk-on, but then get slower?

Why even bother?

If you are in shape to run 18-something for a HS XC 5k, then you will struggle so bad in college XC that you will quit. Get your shit together before you even try any of this.

For what it's worth, I ran low 17's for 5k XC and 10:10 for 3200m and was cut from COrnell team (not allowed to even run with them).

Douchebag Dave wrote:

WalkOn to IvyLeague wrote:

Say I'm a high school kid who maybe ran low 18s for 5k, who can't break 29 minutes for 5 miles, and I go to Cornell, try to walk on the XC team, at what point would I burst Rojo's bubble to the point he wouldn't let me come to practice for being too slow?

If you're running low 18s for 5k, it's doubtful that you can break 31 minutes for 5 miles, let alone 29 minutes.

Not neccessarily, for some of the endurance monsters among us, it's quite possible. When i was in HS, i ran 18:55 for an open 5k XC PR. A week later I ran a 4 mile in 24:28, and a 5 mile course (these weren't HS courses obviously) in 30:45. At that point, I only had an 11:58 2M PR as well. It's funny the avg. pace only slowed 2 secs per mile every increase in distance.

Everyone's different.

its the same as getting into ivy league schools in the first place

money>ability

newname wrote:

I don't understand the question. Do you plan to be allowed to walk-on, but then get slower?

Why even bother?

If you are in shape to run 18-something for a HS XC 5k, then you will struggle so bad in college XC that you will quit. Get your shit together before you even try any of this.

This is the correct answer. While it's great that you enjoy running, you have to realize that the commitment and talent it takes to be part of a D1 program (even in the Ivy Leagues) is most likely worlds away from where you are at. If you enjoy running, then by all means continue to do so, but I can see no other reason for you to try and walk on to the team aside from being able to say "I'm on the team." Focus on your academics.

18 something for a XC 5k wouldn't make Princeton's women's team!

? wrote:

For what it's worth, I ran low 17's for 5k XC and 10:10 for 3200m and was cut from COrnell team (not allowed to even run with them).

I don't get this. Why wouldn't a coach let someone train with the team? Unless he's coming up with workouts specifically for the slow walk-ons, it's no extra effort for him. There's no need to give the slow guys gear, so there's no extra cost. Why not let them run?

Blowing.Rock Master wrote:

? wrote:

For what it's worth, I ran low 17's for 5k XC and 10:10 for 3200m and was cut from COrnell team (not allowed to even run with them).

I don't get this. Why wouldn't a coach let someone train with the team? Unless he's coming up with workouts specifically for the slow walk-ons, it's no extra effort for him. There's no need to give the slow guys gear, so there's no extra cost. Why not let them run?

Its not cost, generally walk on's are limited (or not even allowed) mostly due to Title IX constraints and how hard the athletic dept is on that matter depends on where the balance sits for Male/Female ratio for the school in relation to athletics - if the school is on the edge of a IX violation you can bet that they limit male walk on's. If the person is not on the roster my guess is it would be liability concerns. For runners on the team the school is covered but if you get injured because of a workout the coach gave and are not on the roster - well the school can see that as a lawsuit waiting to happen.

That said, some coaches do allow it but its not with the athletic dept's permission and my guess is its fewer and fewer coaches.

BS wrote:

Its not cost, generally walk on's are limited (or not even allowed) mostly due to Title IX constraints and how hard the athletic dept is on that matter depends on where the balance sits for Male/Female ratio for the school in relation to athletics - if the school is on the edge of a IX violation you can bet that they limit male walk on's. If the person is not on the roster my guess is it would be liability concerns. For runners on the team the school is covered but if you get injured because of a workout the coach gave and are not on the roster - well the school can see that as a lawsuit waiting to happen.

That said, some coaches do allow it but its not with the athletic dept's permission and my guess is its fewer and fewer coaches.

I was on the crew team at Cornell several years ago, and there was no pressure at all to cut the walk ons because of Title IX reasons. The coaches did not feel any pressure to get rid of the lower guys, and generally kept them around (they didn't row, and just erged at the boathouse). Men's crew isn't an NCAA sport, though, so that might factor into it.

Forgot about Title IX. Though I think in many cases that's an excuse, not a reason.

they cannot let every slow slob who wants to work out with the mens cross team do so. what good is having 25 extra people around at practice (in addition to the 20-25 who are actually on the team?)

Blowing.Rock Master wrote:

I don't get this. Why wouldn't a coach let someone train with the team? Unless he's coming up with workouts specifically for the slow walk-ons, it's no extra effort for him. There's no need to give the slow guys gear, so there's no extra cost. Why not let them run?

Liability becomes a big issue.

I walked onto Cornell's XC team in the late 90's (when they were not exactly setting the world on fire). I was one of the last guys to make the team. In high school I consistently ran in the low 16's for 5K XC, and broke 4:30 for the 1600 and 10:00 for the 3200 in track. The tryout was a 3200 meter race on the track about two weeks after the first day of orientation. I ran 9:47, a PR at the time. The guy behind me ran 9:55 and was cut. I would imagine it is harder to make the team today.

Not to rain on your parade, but if you are struggling to break 18:00 minutes for 5K right now then NCAA DI XC is likely not in the cards for you. If you are considering schools of the academic caliber of Brown and Cornell, but would really like to run during your time in college, then consider schools like Williams, Amherst, and U of Chicago where you will get the same (or better) world class academics and be able to run on a DIII team.

5k:

http://www.brownbears.com/sports/m-xc/2009-10/files/2009_CCSU_MINI_MEET_MEN.htm

8k: Pre Nats

http://www.brownbears.com/sports/m-xc/2009-10/files/BLUEMENINDS.htm

I'd think anyone in the 17+ minute range should maybe look at Tufts or Brandeis or Williams. Some 17-18 minute type guys may suck now but end up improving a heck of a lot, so I'm not sure why certain teams have such strict cuts.

IMO, once a 17 or 18 min 5K guy gets onto a serious team, with some hard work they can easily be running 28 minutes for 5-miles.

Smart college coaches without anything to lose recruit hidden gems by getting the guys running like 17 5k's maybe but come from bad poorly funded high schools where the distance running program is terrible (e.g. 20-35mpw), and then when they get to collegiate they get really good.

My high school buddy ran 2:58 for 800m the 1st time he went out for track in high school. I mean he was horrible. I couldnt imagine he'd get much better but he did. He ended up running 10:01 for 3200 his senior year, went to D3 school, today runs roughly in the 26s for 8K.

Arthur Lydiard im sure would be against cuts because he said something like you can never be sure how good you'll get (at least in the beginning) because you can continue aerobic development for many many years.

I think a good standard for college men (with the exception of top D1 teams in country) is breaking 30 minutes for 8K. Otherwise maybe 27minutes for 8K.

I was at Dartmouth in the late 1980's in the great Vin Lananna/Bob Kempainen era - they took 2nd at D1 NCAA nationals that year, amazingly enough.

Here's the thing: I was only at around 16:10 for 5k, totally useless to the team, but Vin not only let me train with the team, but made sure I met with him personally to set goals for the year, and when I asked, put me on the traveling team for a meet. I was automatically entered in all home meets.

All credit to Lananna for having a no-cut rule and being so generous with his time. Running through NH trails are still one of my favorite college memories.

WalkOn to IvyLeague wrote:

How fast do you have to be (as a male) to walk onto Brown University XC team w/o getting cut from the team (not allowed to show up at practice) by the coach?

I'd imagine if you run around 28 minutes in 5 mile races you can walk on, but how about 29 minutes?

2nd question:

Say I'm a high school kid who maybe ran low 18s for 5k, who can't break 29 minutes for 5 miles, and I go to Cornell, try to walk on the XC team, at what point would I burst Rojo's bubble to the point he wouldn't let me come to practice for being too slow?

Try emailing the coaches and see how reasonable it would be to be a walk-on.