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| Did Lydiard train in flats |
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Did Lydiard train in flats? |
| HRE |
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Plimsoles for much of his career. Then there were the shoes he had Bruttig make. |
| sure did |
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Yes, here is a few quotes from him from "Born to Run": "Those sideways flexings of the ankles begin only when people lace themselves into these running shoes because the construction of many of the shoes immediately alters the natural movement of the feet." "We ran in canvas shoes, we didn't get plantar fascia, we didn't pronate or supinate, we might have lost a bit of skin from the rough canvas when we were running marathons, but, generally speaking, we didn't have foot problems. Paying several hundred dollars for high-tech shoes is no guarantee that you'll avoid any of these injuries and can even guarantee that you will suffer from them in one form or another." |
| Big_Kahuna |
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all that they had to run in were canvas shoes. its not like the had much of a choice. Barry Magee thinks that all trainers are to solid, and that the more minimal shoe you can train in te better |
| HRE |
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Digging a little deeper here, remember that Arthur began running seriously in 1947 or so. ANY shoe that he'd have run in then would not even be recognizable as a running shoe of any sort. By the 60s shoes made specifically for running had begun turning up though many of us couldn't get them and were still running in "sneakers." But even state of the art shoes from the 60s to early 80s would likely be considered "flats" by current standards as they had far less cushion and heel height than later models do. Arthur was never a fan of modern high tech shoes but he wasn't dogmatic. He liked a light, simple, shoe with "a bit" of cushion. The last two shoes which he told me he liked were the Mizuno Supersonic and the Brooks Mach I. By then his knees were shot and he wasn't running. If you look at the shoes he had Bruttig make you'll see that they would likely be considered flats today but have more to them than, say the Piranha or Wave Universe. |
| dsas |
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I remember seeing the lydiard guys and arthur himself always training in the lowest shoe, plimsolls as you said. they also wore the fred perry polos http://www.fredperry.com/footwear/kingston-plimsoll.html http://www.springcourtusa.com/home.html http://www.manufactum.de/Produkt/189770/1404187/BruettingMarathon.html http://www.retrotogo.com/2008/12/brtting-roadrun.html thanks HRE for all the info you share on Lydiard, you are a great asset to letsrun.com |
| dsas |
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lydiard also like karhu shoes http://karhuoriginals.net/collection.php http://farm1.static.flickr.com/25/49408712_5e55277a15.jpg http://www.flickr.com/photos/ansik/2528551014/sizes/l/ http://storage.kanshin.com/free/img_30/308433/k1509432432.jpg |
| giancarlo |
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It's too bad the new era Karhu have moved further and further away from the "natural ride" they claim to have. I mean, really, 26mm heel? |
| dsas |
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yeah I know |
| HRE |
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Hey, thanks! Much appreciated. |
| silly old fossil |
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HRE, although Lydiard run in canvas plimsoles AKA gym shoes, Arthur's boys (Snell, Magee, etc) ran in a much superior shoe...the Don Bergin Road King. It was actually a running shoe with a unique twist...an actual heel (albeit a small one) affixed to the bottom similar to the heel of a dress shoe. You could find adverts in 1970-1971 RW magazine, but they had to be imported from NZ. No one....NO ONE (before or since) has ever made better constructed running shoes that the Don Bergin Road King. Any oldtimers remember the Road King? |
| dsaa |
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bump |
| Phil_P |
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Check out the add at the bottom of page 14. http://www.mastershistory.org/Outdoor-Program/Program-1971-07.pdf |
| local yokel |
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I loved the Lydiard kangaroo racing flats, except my toe always came out in front. Ran three marathons in them. They were soft, flexible and had enough rubber on bottom to be bouncy. |
| HRE |
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I do remember seeing ads for the Road King. Never saw an actual pair. Yeah, even back then technology moved on. I know that Arthur used to build a little heel like that onto the back of the track spikes his guys used. |
| Kim Stevenson |
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Rich and others. I ran thousands of miles in Don Bergins. In new zealand in the late 60's /early seventies they were "the shoe", possibly for no other reason than they were considerably cheaper than imported Adidas and the rare (in NZ) Onitsuka Tigers.(All you could get here in those days) The Bergins were quite a comfortable shoe but I hated running up hill in them at times as my heel would slip out of them. However, "maintenance wise" they were great. You could get the heels replaced easily and where the leather wore out you could get a patch put on. In those days NZ had a thriving shoe repair market and also some very innovative shoe makers. I wrote the folowing piece on the NZrun website recently "Until the Rome Olympics Snell ran in whatever shoes he could, as we mentioned. What I am writing here is mentioned in his book. Arthur built him a pair of spikes for the Games. When the guys got to Rome of course the "Big" shoe companies (Adidas & Puma) knew who Halberg was but had no idea who Snell was and basically did'nt want to know. When Snell won his Semi (in oly record) Adidas came calling. But Peter decided to run the Final in the shoes Arthur built. The rest is History. However, after that Peter ran in Adidas and all his World Records and the rest of the Gold Medals were won in Adidas. One of the shoes he wore for that 1960 Oly Gold is in a trophy that is competed for each year by Rotorua Girls High and Tauranga Girls College. It is really basic, a leather shoe with 4 permanent spikes in each shoe, reasonably light for the time. I am old enough to recall that Arthur manufactured models of that shoe and they were in high demand by athletes. But then the Adidas hit town and for years that is what everyone wore in terms of spikes. However, As I said above there was a huge local industry and there was quite a few local Brands that stood up well for many years, all were made of light leather or synthetic leather .. Don Bergins were a really popular model (I ran many miles in those !!!) .. really until Nylon uppers became the trend. By that stage Nike were on board and other brands were being imported. Laser Lydiard were the last kiwi running shoes and then various Government policies killed the shoe industry (mostly fashion .. but sport was in there) and cheap imports became the trend as it is now" |
| Kim Stevenson |
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Some "added extras" .. related to the vidoes everyone has commneted about and the shoes the Lydiard guys wore back in the day. "The shoes Peter was wearing were probably off the shelf Sandshoes. BUT and I emphasis BUT .... What Arthur Lydiard did to those shoes was re sole them and "dolly them" up a bit so they were a hell of a lot better. He also made the guys various models of shoes. Very minimalist. Don't forget Peter won the Gold in 1960 in a pair of Arthur's shoes. Arthur knew how to make really good shoe lasts and one of the arguments he had with his Brother was he felt that Wally had "stolen" his designs .. Who remembers Laser Lydiards ... Well Arthur maintained the lasts that those were made from were his not Wally's... The row went on for years. But Bottom line was both men knew how to make a shoe. There were a lot of guys in Auckland .. and the rest of the country .. who could design lasts and put together a decent shoe ... NZ once had a thriving show industry .. I recall a bunch of guys in Auckland who used to take a Pair of Spikes and re sole them beautifully and make you a decent pair of Road racing shoes out of them.. Everytime I got a new pair of Training shoes I would take them to one of those guys and they would put a heel on them and every few weeks I would take them back and get a new one put on.. Can't do that with the fancy gear around today !!! |
| jaguar1 |
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So should us minimalist be checking out Keds for all our miles? I don't believe I've thought of that yet! Thank you. :) |
| dsas |
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