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| MSCoach |
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With Meb's win and 6 of the first ten finishers at New York being American (all under 2:15 and no Dathan, arguably our best), are we on the verge of America's greatest era of marathoning? Or do we have a long way to go before we surpass the late 70's/early 80's with Salazar, Meyer, Rodgers, and Co.? |
| Blowing.Rock Master |
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I don't think we've surpassed that group, but we're finally back to their level again. IMHO this new group has even more depth, especially in the 5 & 10. Let's hope our best decide to run World Cross, it'd be fun to see a bunch of USA uniforms mixed in with the Kenyan, Ethiopian, Eritrean, and Quatari vests. We've come a long way since Rod de Haven was our lone marathoner in 2000. |
| David St. Hubbins |
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...not even close.... |
| jabroniii |
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In the coming 3-4 years we will be. Just take a look at the ridiculous marks we are starting to see from high school and collegiate athletes, in particular high school. 2008 had a solid graduating class, 2009 was solid in it's own right. And now we have all these underclassmen kids, Lukas, the Rosas, Lutz, and others running ridiculous times. Sub 15:00 5Ks as sophs/jrs??? |
| Son of Dad |
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A long way to go. This was a pretty weak field on the men's side. A couple big names, but no depth. All the top guys are running 2:06 these day - not 2:12. So, yeah, we're better than the 2:16 shmoes we were putting out there 10 years ago, but still no big push on the world scene. |
| Richard Simmons |
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Rofl, dude like no one ran in the NYC marathon. Was just a big propaganda tool for the annointed 'white savior' and then Meb won and f'd everything up. |
| matter of Great Import |
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Yeah, 2:06, like all those Africans who Meb and the other Americans beat today. 2:09-low at NYCM on a windy day is good enough to beat the other 2:06ers (of which Meb would be one of on a fast course).
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| old ndn runna |
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Mottram, while being being white is an Australian, not an American , dumb A$$! |
| Off the Grid |
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You need the meat-grinder approach. Malmo pointed out - from his HS graduating year, he was 41rst in the country in the 2 mile. Of those, 3-4 made All-Am (7-8?). He was the only one to go on to significant global level success. So the ratio was 40:1 then. So we need 20-30 2:10 marathoners minimum to have a shot at producing 1-2 who can compete globally....and that is not coming any time soon. The same thing happens in East Africa - Kenya had 451 athletes meet the 2:15 marathon standard in the 2008 Olympic qualifying window. 20x the US total. Of these Kenyan athletes, most will burn out. When the US has the gross numbers of runners hitting WORLD CLASS marks, then we can talk about a renaissance. Until then, its marketing fluff... |
| hmmmmmm |
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no one ran in the nyc marathon? yeah - just a four time boston winner and WMM title holder, an olympic silver medalist with multiple world titles at multiple distances, a 2:04:27 marathoner, a 2:06 marathoner with multiple american records, a sub-59 minute half marathoner, and a two time winner of the race. oh, and that is not inculding the olympic silver medalist that won it. stop talking |
| CANADA |
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This was a great result and the future of American distance running looks very bright. However, we are not close to approaching the greatest era of American distance running, which was 1972-1984. I know that some of you will say that the competition from other countries has improved, but this period also had many outstanding runners from other countries, including Viren, Rono, Bayi, Walker, Quax, Dixon, DeCastella, Seko et al. The following is a partial list of some of the world-class male American middle-distance and distance runners from 1972-1984 - it is pretty impressive: Shorter (Oly Gold, Oly Silver) Moore (4th Oly) Rodgers (4 Boston wins, 4 NYC wins) Meyer (Boston Champ, 2:09 marathon) Salazar (3 NYC wins, 1 Boston win - WR in 1981 - I know that some say the course was short, but in my mind he is still the greatest American marathoner of all time) Kardong (4th Oly, 2:11 marathon) Wells (2nd Boston) Sandoval (Oly Trials Champ, 2:10 marathon) Hodge (3rd Boston, 2:10 marathon) Tabb (2nd Boston, 2:09 marathon) Pre (4th Oly 5000) Anderson (Boston Champ) Fleming (2nd Boston) Bjorklund (2:10 marathoner, Oly finalist 10,000) Virgin (2 time World X-C Champ, 2:10 marathoner) Beardsley (2:08 marathoner in the heat of the 1982 Boston Marathon) Thomas (2:11 marathon) Durden (3rd Boston, 2:09 marathon) Chapa (2:11 marathon) Scott (Number 1 miler in the world in 1982, World Cham Silver) Diemer (Oly Bronze steeple) Marsh (4th Oly steeple) Liquori (ranked 1st in the world in the 5000 in 1977) Wohlhuter (Oly Bronze 800) Wottle (Oly Gold 800) Pfeiffer (2nd NYC Marathon) Tuttle (2:10 marathon) Gordon (2:11 marathon) |
| Brent |
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Shorter also won the Fukuoka marathon--which functioned like a de facto world championship race between 1965 and 1975--four times in a row in the early 70s. |
| Joe Harts |
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It was a sold field. I wonder how that field compares to the one in 1981. So who did Salazar beat-Jose Gomez? what were those guys credentials? |
| BillCarr |
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Bill Rodgers also won Fukuoka in 1977 (2:10.55). He was 3rd in 1975 and 6th in 1978. |
| malmo |
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You have your facts misconscrewed. |
| Red Glare |
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No, probably not. |
| jsquire |
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It depends on what your criteria are. Myself, I think how you fare in head-to-head competition against the world's best is more important than fast times. In other words, to me Meb's win is more important than Hall's 2:06:17 (and his Olympic silver medal is more important than KK's world records). There's no perfect way to summarize competitive results, but T&FN's World Rankings are better than anything else I can come up with. Probably the peak time for the USA in the men's 5k, 10k and marathon was '72-'77, where top-10 world-ranked runners included Steve Prefontaine, Dick Buerkle, Paul Geis, Marty Liquori, Frank Shorter, Kenny Moore, Bill Rodgers, Steve Hoag, Tom Fleming and Don Kardong. Ten guys, a total of 23 World Rankings over a six-year period, with Shorter, Rodgers and Liquori earning 5 #1 rankings between them. If we start with 2009, who could World Rank in the 5/10/marathon this year or in the near future? Ritz, Meb, Lagat, Teg, Solinsky, Hall, Rupp. Fernandez in a few years if he stays healthy. Webb has the talent (but AlSal has his work cut out for him with that knucklehead). Some more could come out of the woodwork in the next few years. So in terms of depth, possibly. In terms of height, I doubt it. I don't see five #1 rankings in the pages of T&FN in long distances coming up in the next six years. I hope I'm wrong, but the odds are against it. |
| Son of Dad |
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As is your spelling. |
| Douchebag Dave |
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2009 World list 2:04:27 Duncan Kibet (Kenya) James Kwambai (Kenya) 2:05:04 Abel Kirui (Kenya) 2:05:10 Samuel Wanjiru (Kenya) 2:05:20 Tsegaye Kebede (Ethiopia) 2:05:27 Jaouad Gharib (Morocco) 2:05:29 Haile Gebrselassie (Ethiopia) 2:05:47 Vincent Limo (Kenya) 2:06:14 Patrick Makau (Kenya) 2:06:15 Bazu Worku (Ethiopia) (10) 2:06:26 David Kiyeng (Kenya) 2:06:30 Yemane Adhane (Ethiopia) 2:06:48 Rachid Kisri (Morocco) 2:06:53 David Kipkorir (Kenya) Emmanuel Mutai (Kenya) 2:07:04 Francis Kiprop (Kenya) 2:07:17 Benjamin Kiptoo (Kenya) 2:07:31 Jonathan Kipkorir (Kenya) 2:07:41 Negari Terfa (Ethiopia) 2:07:44 Hendrick Ramaala (South Africa) (20) 2:07:48 Patrick Ivuti (Kenya) 2:07:52 Deriba Merga (Ethiopia) 2:07:54 Moses Arusei (Kenya) Deressa Chimsa (Ethiopia) Stephen Kibiwott (Kenya) 2:08:07 Jackson Kipkoech (Kenya) 2:08:11 Shadrack Kiplagat (Kenya) 2:08:12 John Komen (Kenya) 2:08:21 Gilbert Kirwa (Kenya) 2:08:23 Paul Kirui (Kenya) (30) 2:08:24 Wesley Korir (Kenya) 2:08:25 Abderrahmin Goumri (Morocco) 2:08:28 Yonas Kifle (Eritrea) 2:08:30 Yirdaw Dejene (Ethiopia) Ji Young-joon (South Korea) 2:08:38 Daniel Kiprugut (Kenya) 2:08:41 Joseph Ngeny (Kenya) Eshetu Wondimu (Ethiopia) 2:08:43 Abraham Chelanga (Kenya) 2:08:51 Samuel Muturi (Kenya) (40) No Americans in the top 40 runners so far this year. If we've got a resurgence going on, we've got a long way to go. |
| rnn1ngf00l |
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Last time I checked, it's not how fast you run, it's who you beat in Major Marathons. Most of those guys ran those times on drag strips and will never show up to BEAT anyone when it matters. |
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