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| des |
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Sunday will be my first marathon, and to be honest, I am still trying to figure out what should be my ideal goal. Should I go conservative and just look to break 2:40, or go out slightly faster to see if I really can run around 2:37... My racing/training background is as follows: - 74:34 in my first 1/2 marathon last November on a course that was mostly flat with 1 pretty rough hill. -more recently I ran a 75:10 in the philly distance run (9/20) in a controlled/not all out effort (I was dragged out to a hard first 2 miles but relaxed through mile 6 running +/- 5:50s, then i ran between 5:35-5:45s over the last 7+ miles.. I negative splitted over a minute (btwn 10k/20k) and I felt pretty fresh afterwards -btwn July 1st and Sept 31st: I averaged roughly 93 miles per week, with a down week about every 3rd week.. I maxed out at 112 and had 2 other weeks at 110 - 4 runs of 22+ (2 longest being 24 and 23) - about 8 runs/workouts that totaled over 20 miles - I've run some shorter tempos on the track between 6-8 miles with paces around 5:45-5:50/mile - Aside from the half marathon.. some of my longer hard efforts include runs starting and ending with hard portions.. with easy running int he middle (ie: 4 mile tempo/8 mi ez/4 mi tempo) -I've done a 15 mi progression run starting at 6:40-30 for the first few miles and bringing it down to sub 6 for the last few (avg of 6:20 pace) Also, my taper seems to be going well.. my legs feel really fresh. I think if I go out conservative and run a 2:38 or 2:39 feeling great I will be happy, but I will be left wondering "what if?"... on the other hand, I don't want to go out in 2:37 pace and totally bonk and run over 2:40 On a final note, anyone have any input on precisely what sub 6:00/mile pace is for a marathon. Some online pace calculators tell me 2:37:18 others 2:37:12.... 6 seconds.. not too huge.. but it would help if i'm cutting it close! |
| some advice |
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Run by effort, not by your watch. Only your body knows what it's capable of. |
| i am the walrus |
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I would go out at 6:00/ mile pace for the first 20 miles and then see what you have left in the tank. It's your first marathon, you should purely enjoy it. The feeling of cramping up, breaking down at 20miles with 6 more to go could be devastating to you and spoil your next races. you got nothing to loose. just relax and enjoy and go out thinking "wow, this is easy". you should still feel like that around mile 15. with your PR's, quite honestly, 2:40 would be a very very solid performance. You double your half marathon time and add anywhere between 10 to 20 min for a marathon estimation. that would put you somewhere into the mid 2:40s, (...). Don't think "oh well, that half wasn't an all out effort etc..". Fact is, your PR is 74 something. just my 2 cent, good luck with your race. report back. walrus |
| wejostriplet |
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The conservative option is best, particularly on a tough course like NYC. I calculated 5:59.999 pace to be about 2:37:18.72. Think the 2:37:12 comes from calling a marathon 26.2 miles. |
| kjapew |
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My times were almost exactly the same and I ran 2:37. Go for it. As for pacing... it's up to you. I think what works best for me is to start just a little fast, because I always slow a little towards the end as my legs get stiffer. Mostly, you should run how you feel. Most importantly, you might be feeling good and at some point panic and think, "What the hell am I doing?!?!" But don't be afraid, you're super fit. |
| Feed me Seymour |
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I am in a similar boat. I have run less volume (averaged about 70 per week) and did fewer long-long runs. Raced a 1/2 in 1:12:30, and also did a 20 mile workout, with first 10 in 68 min and last 10 in 59:00. Felt smooth the whole way. Should I be able to break 2:40? |
| 5jdas318j t |
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What are your mile and or 5k PRs? |
| Feed me Seymour |
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4:19 and 15:25 |
| des |
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I have heard doubling your 1/2 and adding 7 mins for a marathon and 10 seems pretty reasonable too, but I have never heard of adding as much as 20 mins. I don't know if the mile / 5k pr question was directed at me or the other guy, but If it is directed at me, I doubt they'd be very good points of reference... I have not run a 5k or mile/15 since i graduated college (08), and my college running career was very poor due to injuries/running for a program that didn't seem structure to work for me... After college I completely changed the way I train, and I have had much better results: ie: running a half marathon at a 11 sec/mile pace faster than my college 8k pr. but if you really want to know. as a sophomore, I ran a 16:42 (never ran faster), and my 1500 i think converts to about a 4:52. my current 10k prs are actually from that first half 0-10k then 10k-20k again.. then i think i got it again from 10k-20k this year at the pdr haha |
| Truth Guy |
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Your mileage looks good but what were you doing before July. Running a fast marathon requires some cumulative strength beyond a 3 or 4 month build-up. I assume you were running pre-July but how much? Having said all that, sub 2:40 should be doable but pacing the marathon is like walking a tightrope. Go out a hair too fast and you could be in for a painful last 10K. I promise you the first 13-16 miles will feel like gravy regardless of your pace. Have faith in your training and do what your legs tell you. |
| mcgato |
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My half best is 1:14:30 and my marathon best is 2:36:22. I say go for sub 6. But tell everyone that you are going for sub 2:40. For the first marathon that I trained for (I ignore the one that I did at age 16), I had 4 weeks of 70 to 80 mile weeks, then 6 weeks of 105 or so with 5 or 6 twenty mile runs. In the race (Twin Cities), I hit the 5 mile mark right about 30 minutes. Somewhere in the middle I settled into 5:55 pace or so and hit 20 miles at 1:58:20. A slight fade over the last 10K for a 2:36:28 finish. For NYC, don't go crazy over the first few miles and understand that the first mile is all uphill and there is lots of congestion. The Queensboro bridge is tough at around 15 miles, but 1st Ave should be exciting. The final miles are tough, so unless you went out really conservative, expect to fade somewhat. The crowds should keep you going. |
| 5jdas318j t |
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4:19 15:25 and 72:30 should get you under 2:40. If you want to run 2:37 start at 2:40 and hope you have a kick. Your 4:19 and 70 mpw support the idea that you are going to hit the wall if you go out even a little too hard. DES in your case, I need more information. |
| des |
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I started my training in the 2nd to last week in May. If you are familiar with the Daniels' marathon plans, i basically stuck with his suggested weekly mileage percentages of your peak mileage for 24 weeks leading up to the race.. I ran 303 miles total in june.. so i guess thats about +/- 70 for june |
| 5jpjanrnj t |
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Actually, I take these slow PRs and reasonably high mileage to indicate that you most likely will not hit the wall and should shoot for 2:37 from the gun. You are not a speed demon who held on for his HM off a fast 5k. |
| J Peterman |
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Fellas, I warn you to be cautious on that course in NYC. My PRs going into the race were 1500: 4:04, 5000: 15:08, from 3 years previous in college, and I ran a 2:44 in Philly with only moderate training. I was going for sub-6 pace at NYC and I totally died the last 10k. I hit ten miles in 61:00, 20 miles in 2:03, and finished in 2:46 (luckily Lance Armstrong did not pass me, I would have had nothing). What really killed me were the slight uphills going over the bridges into Manhattan at miles 15-16 and then going up 1st Ave into the Bronx for 80 blocks or whatever from miles 16-18. I held pace until the turnaround in the Bronx, and then somehow going back down into Manhattan seemed uphill also and I started running 7:00/mile. I have a lot of excuses for why I fell apart, but be wary of those uphills! Don't be tempted to pick it up for the crowds on 1st Ave. Plus, by the time you want to start walking and vomit the street will be lined with spectators, so don't put yourself in that position! |
| jjjjjjjjjjj |
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I was just ahead of Lance as well a couple years ago but ran 2:40 last year at NYC off a 1:14 hm on a tough course a month earlier. Honestly, I was disappointed in the marathon time because I felt flat from the beginning and six pace was not easy, as it had been in training. I would go for sub 2:37 if I were the OP. I don't have a clue what I am going to run this year, because I missed a month of key workouts in September because of a calf injury, before getting in five one hundred mile weeks prior to the taper. I couldn't get a race in and held back, but easy runs got a lot faster and this month, I did workouts like 7xmile mostly around 5:40, with 200m rest; 15M at 6:54 pace; 8M in the Southern heat in just over 50; 10 miles moderate at 6:24 this past Sunday; and this week 2M moderate at just under six minute pace, then 4x300 (100j) in 57. Could be 2:40s, could be slower, or maybe even a pr. That NYC course will eat you up if you haven't been doing hills. |
| jjjjjjjjjjj |
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and 10 or 11M at 6:09 pace on a hot, humid day. Get out there easy on the first mile, over six, open up the stride without effort on the second mile (should be fast, regardless), and then see how six pace feels on mile 3. Don't wait on this course with the hopes of negative splitting the second half, because very few people (Paula did) can do that with all the hills, including the 1M hill on fifth up to the park, and the last mile is also almost all uphill. |
| IDK |
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This has no barring on running 26 miles on a tough course |
| Pittman |
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2:45 |
| 6hv ah7n afna |
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With your comment, I went and looked up comments on the Philly Half Marathon course. It does seem easier than the NY marathon course. If you are such an expert, how much slower do you think NY is than a flat course? |
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