The healthcare bill will utterly annihilate what is left of American healthcare

And people try and say that those on the right are ignorant, paranoid, and full of over the top flat out lie scare tactics?? Now WHERE did they ever get that idea??Oh yeah:

dkfjskfj wrote:

The new law forcing insurance companies to accept patients with pre-existing conditions will be the nail in the coffin. Underwriting and actuarial tables are at the core of any insurance business. Forced to cover millions of sick new patients, insruance companies will be unable to survive and cover their existing policyholders. Premiums will skyrocket so massively and quickly that everyone will be forced, practically overnight, to accept a single-payer system. Then the rationing begins, and our waiting times will be worse than Canada's. Take care of your health, folks, because reliable medical care is not going to exist in 10 years.

Charles Atlas Shrugs wrote:

And people try and say that those on the right are ignorant, paranoid, and full of over the top flat out lie scare tactics?? Now WHERE did they ever get that idea??

You have failed to point out any flaw in my argument.

Re Joe Wilson (and by default the OP)

"He's become the new Sarah Palin of the Republican Party, where one's popularity is in inverse proportion to one's stupidity -- the stupider a Republican is these days the more popular he or she becomes."

-- Bruce Bartlett, former Reagan adviser and treasury official under George Bush Sr.

dkfjskfj wrote:

The new law forcing insurance companies to accept patients with pre-existing conditions will be the nail in the coffin. Underwriting and actuarial tables are at the core of any insurance business. Forced to cover millions of sick new patients, insruance companies will be unable to survive and cover their existing policyholders. Premiums will skyrocket so massively and quickly that everyone will be forced, practically overnight, to accept a single-payer system. Then the rationing begins, and our waiting times will be worse than Canada's. Take care of your health, folks, because reliable medical care is not going to exist in 10 years.

Yes, morality and profit do butt heads every now and then.

Mayor Bob Rundown wrote:

Yes, morality and profit do butt heads every now and then.

LMAO. Well then, you can sit around dwelling on how moral you are while healchare becomes unaffordable to even the healthiest individuals.

What's the point of picking out flaws in your argument? Are you going to actually ponder any rebuttles? I doubt it. You sound like you have your mind made up.

Personally, I have grown very tired of trying to reason with people with such paranoia.

You got it! That's why I need your help. I promised _change_ and I plan to deliver.

Here is a flaw. The reason healthcare insurance is so expensive is that people don't sign up for it until they think they will very soon have serious problems. There are millions of healthy, mostly young, people out there who are not paying into the system. Considering how insurance works these people SHOULD be paying in but since there is no mandate they aren't. Forcing everyone to purchase insurance will lower overall costs.

QED

i kinda like running wrote:

What's the point of picking out flaws in your argument? Are you going to actually ponder any rebuttles? I doubt it. You sound like you have your mind made up.

Personally, I have grown very tired of trying to reason with people with such paranoia.

You're not trying to reason with anyone. You're only trying to force your view of morality on people who disagree with you.

dkfjskfj wrote:

The new law forcing insurance companies to accept patients with pre-existing conditions will be the nail in the coffin. Underwriting and actuarial tables are at the core of any insurance business. Forced to cover millions of sick new patients, insruance companies will be unable to survive and cover their existing policyholders. Premiums will skyrocket so massively and quickly that everyone will be forced, practically overnight, to accept a single-payer system. Then the rationing begins, and our waiting times will be worse than Canada's. Take care of your health, folks, because reliable medical care is not going to exist in 10 years.

Your entire argument is flawed, because it is not an argument. It's a rote spew of opinion based on claptrap scare tactics by right wingers in the pocket if insurance companies.

Other than that you are paranoid and a sick person.

Stop posting your political crap on this site.

And try not to feel suicidal when you realize what a scared and hateful person you are.

they why does EVERY other industrialized nation have better health care results while spending less than we do? all while using a national health care systemsorry, but we have one of the single worst health care systems in the world. we are on a par with several third world nations.That is despite having some of the worlds best doctors, nurses and other hc professionals

dkfjskfj wrote:

LMAO. Well then, you can sit around dwelling on how moral you are while healchare becomes unaffordable to even the healthiest individuals.

I just got raped in the ass with a bill regarding a torn MCL!! I have insurance too, with co-pay.. I'm a little worried how much the surgery is going to be?

right on brotha. Unfortunately it will be too late when this becomes apparent to those still in the Obama fog. There is nothing directly related to reducing costs-just a wish list of items that will increase costs and 'slow' down future increases.

To those who disagree, please tell me how adding 25 million legitimate people, who currently have no insurance, will reduce costs and access to a doc. These same people will suddenly have access to the insurance system and will get there care, so how does this revenue neutral math work?

wrong. Rules state that when an employer pays 100% of employee costs, then it is mandatory that the employee participates-no ifs, ands or buts. Your argument makes some sense on the surface, but the number of employees that you're talking about is irrelevant to change a whole system. The paradigm works when people have it and don't access care-'giving' it to millions who haven't been covered will put a run on the system like people taking their money from the banks during the great financial crises.

We don't have enough docs in the system to make this work and I want to be there to hear you bitch when your doc can't see you when you need him/her the most.

i kinda like running wrote:

What's the point of picking out flaws in your argument? Are you going to actually ponder any rebuttles? I doubt it. You sound like you have your mind made up.

Personally, I have grown very tired of trying to reason with people with such paranoia.

For one thing, a new open-ended entitlement - cost undetermined, estimates notwithstanding - is being charged to national credit card .... just as we merrily keep consuming goods and resources from around the world, paying for them by our government's IOUs .... while our government is working feverishly on creating Green Jobs. Sounds like, well, a plan for a change.

The change will happen down the road in a generation or two when the CC ceiling is reached and bills come due.

dkfjskfj wrote:

The new law forcing insurance companies to accept patients with pre-existing conditions will be the nail in the coffin. Underwriting and actuarial tables are at the core of any insurance business. Forced to cover millions of sick new patients, insruance companies will be unable to survive and cover their existing policyholders. Premiums will skyrocket so massively and quickly that everyone will be forced, practically overnight, to accept a single-payer system. Then the rationing begins, and our waiting times will be worse than Canada's. Take care of your health, folks, because reliable medical care is not going to exist in 10 years.

It is inevitable that costs will rise if you mandate that insurance companies must accept people with pre-existing conditions. To minimize this you must also: a) mandate that everyone carries coverage...so now you have a larger pool of healthy people paying in to the risk pool and b) reduce coverage of sh!t like b0ner pills and other "optional" treatments.

I believe the current plan calls for (a), I doubt that it calls for (b). I will expect premiums to go up, unless the government subsidizes premiums for some...then I will expect taxes to go up.

Basically, I expect taxes and premiums to go up. I don't think your doomsday scenario plays out. I think things will be mildly worse for the majority of the currently insured and vastly, unbelievably better for people that are suffering with pre-existing conditions.

I have friends and family that are currently without insurance and have ALS and cancer, if you have to wait a month to get your MRI on your lame ass running injury so they can get the care they need, I don't really give a sh!t.

I appreciate your argument and fortunately everybody that I know has a job and pays for insurance; ragardless of current health status. I do resent having to pay more for people who have chosen to pass on coverage when available and for illegals who will not participate at any cost. Costs will go up more than you think and many will still not be able to afford it. State mandated benefits account for approx 25% of current costs and I don't anticipate our fearless leaders dropping those mandates. Fyi, your liberal leaning states have the most mandates, so what do you think will happen?

It would be too good to be true.

The insane Righties hate Obama's plan, BUT REFUSE TO COME UP WITH ANYTHING BETTER. The bottom line is, they hate Obama and will do anything to derail ANYTHING he does.

The same pigs who are against the public plan for healthcare are the same pigs who had no problem paying billions of dollars to Halliburton and Blackwater to, quote, 'rebuild' Iraq. The same pigs who don't want the government involved in healthcare are the same pigs who were cheering when Bush tried to get involved in the terri Schiavo case. The same pigs who who didn't want their children to see Obama speak on television last week had NO problem when Bush was t*r*y*i*ng to read an upside-down book about a pet goat in a classroom on the morning of 9/11. The same pigs who had no problem with people having the phones tapped of people who spoke out against Bush for 7+ years are the same pigs carrying signs of Obama dressed as a witch doctor at Tea Party events.

The fanatics on the right are the biggest bunch of f-u-c-k-i-n-g hypocrits in the history of the planet. And that's before we even get inot the racism angle.....