Economy vs. Environment. Is Capitalism Enviromentally sustainable?

Answer: Is civil human society sustainable without liberty?

Reference: all previous centuries but most especially the 20th.

Question: What will happen to liberty when there is not enough natural resources (water, energy, arable land, etc.) to provide sufficient food and shelter for everyone on the planet?

Yes it is sustainable; make taking care of the environment profitable...which in a worst case scenario it will become anyway...so why not work to ward off the worst?

You have to create incentives that protect the environment, and disincentives to harming it. The question then becomes, how much incentive is enough/too much.

Precious Roy wrote:

Question: What will happen to liberty...?

Only the fittest will survive. Fittest not meaning very good athletes, but those ruthless enough to take advantage of others to keep themselves alive.

Since when is a productive economy based on vast amounts of the working force commuting upwards of 50 miles or further to work every day? Its pretty much been downhill for the American economy ever since Americans started doing that. And contrary to what to popular belief its not the "American way of life".

Did pioneer homesteaders who first started farming in the Midwest build their home 5 miles from the farm so they could commute back and forth to word because it was the American Dream? Its absurd.

Precious Roy wrote:

Question: What will happen to liberty when there is not enough natural resources (water, energy, arable land, etc.) to provide sufficient food and shelter for everyone on the planet?

Put away your buggy whip, steam engine and cathode ray tubes and realize that what will be needed will be found as long as tyranny does not suppress the human spirit.

It is perpetual population growth in combination with capitalism (or any form of progress/pursuit of prosperity) that is not sustainable.

warsaw ghetto wrote:

Precious Roy wrote:

Question: What will happen to liberty when there is not enough natural resources (water, energy, arable land, etc.) to provide sufficient food and shelter for everyone on the planet?

Put away your buggy whip, steam engine and cathode ray tubes and realize that what will be needed will be found as long as tyranny does not suppress the human spirit.

How about a new solar system when this planet becomes uninhabitable? Or the ability to arrest and reverse entropy when all the Universe's stars have died?

on the runs wrote:

warsaw ghetto wrote:

Put away your buggy whip, steam engine and cathode ray tubes and realize that what will be needed will be found as long as tyranny does not suppress the human spirit.

How about a new solar system when this planet becomes uninhabitable? Or the ability to arrest and reverse entropy when all the Universe's stars have died?

Very funny, but the posts above are not joking.

For centuries and centuries it was argued that only elites could make important life decisions for themselves, that chaos would ensue if the unwashed masses were not held in check. Here we are again; crisis, we all lose.

I've been to China, to the socialist/fascist paradise and I have never seen so much pollution, so much thick air.

It was the same situation in the recently deceased Soviet Union.

Free peoples argue, discuss, vote and find a way toward a better society than socialist/fascist. Top down societies can't even feed the population or supply basic needs after offing tens of millions of hungry mouths within their own borders.

I live in a city that was once called 'Hell with a lid off' and via the vote the citizens began the clean up back in the 1950's. The clean up has not yet begun in authoritarian countries.

Don't let these sixties retreads con you into giving up your dignity and your future.

Is this thread the Letsrun Communist Luddite meet-up thread?

Tell me what economic system has produced a cleaner environment than that found in the Capitalist economies? The Soviet Union? Red China? North Korea? Cuba? Only rich countries can afford to keep their environments clean, and only countries that have allowed Capitalism to work its magic are rich.

When we factor in the real costs of production sustaining an an enviroment that is livable for humans is cost effective.

Capitalism is designed in a way that it exploits and marginalizes for profit. This is beneficial when you are on the recieving end of the profits. Currently this is shifting away from the US, we no longer control the means of production, the raw materials or the labor force for our basis of wealth. All 3 of these facotrs are in Asia.

Blowing.Rock Master wrote:

Is this thread the Letsrun Communist Luddite meet-up thread?

Tell me what economic system has produced a cleaner environment than that found in the Capitalist economies? The Soviet Union? Red China? North Korea? Cuba? Only rich countries can afford to keep their environments clean, and only countries that have allowed Capitalism to work its magic are rich.

environment is nobody's property so capitalism doesn't care. capitalism destroys the environment. The Sovie Union has nothing to do with that.

Neither you nor jorvack (who filled his post with so much gibberish and incorrect "facts" that it's nearly incomprehensible) answered my question. What economic system has ever produced a cleaner environment than Capitalism?

BTW, your assertion that nobody cares about the environment under a Capitalist system is patently untrue. Were it true then how come the air and water of the western Capitalist countries is so clean?

Blowing.Rock Master wrote:

how come the air and water of the western Capitalist countries is so clean?

it isn't?

Blowing.Rock Master wrote:

What economic system has ever produced a cleaner environment than Capitalism?

Show me the stats that indicate that the environment in the US, Japan, Germany, or the UK is filthier than it was 100 years ago? These are the countries with the largest Capitalist economies during that time period. It should be easy.

Blowing.Rock Master wrote:

Is this thread the Letsrun Communist Luddite meet-up thread?

Tell me what economic system has produced a cleaner environment than that found in the Capitalist economies? The Soviet Union? Red China? North Korea? Cuba? Only rich countries can afford to keep their environments clean, and only countries that have allowed Capitalism to work its magic are rich.

So you're a fan of the system in Scandinavia?