Anyone else suspicious? Ritz goes to Salazar and "suddenly" starts running better?

Have you seen Rit'z credentials before Salazar? They are pretty much right in line.

riiiiight, he dropped something like 20 seconds off his PR? and you people go crazy when vessey drops 2-3 seconds off of hers?

To a very large extent, it's a matter of getting in the right races for the right opportunities. Plus, he's managed to avoid injury for a long time. If you recall how well he did for years when he was barely getting fit between wounds, this is not as big a shock. Plus it's been years since he was even in a world class 5000.

I've met Ritz and talked with him a few times. I don't believe for one second that he would cheat, and I'm highly suspicious of many, many people.

There's nothing suspicious about it. They're just leveling the playing field...

lololol wrote:

riiiiight, he dropped something like 20 seconds off his PR? and you people go crazy when vessey drops 2-3 seconds off of hers?

How about 8:11 years ago?

Salazar's runners don't know what they're taking. They know what coach Al tells them, "here, take these supplements".

Nope, we just finally got his long-undiagnosed thyroid condition in order, among other 'deficiencies.'

Camoo wrote:

I've met Ritz and talked with him a few times. I don't believe for one second that he would cheat, and I'm highly suspicious of many, many people.

I'm amazed that people continue to use this line of thinking in evaluating whether or not somebody is doping. What do people think cheaters talk and act like, ax murderers or something?

What I think is that I know about more about this particular instance than you do.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Camoo wrote:

I've met Ritz and talked with him a few times. I don't believe for one second that he would cheat, and I'm highly suspicious of many, many people.

I'm amazed that people continue to use this line of thinking in evaluating whether or not somebody is doping. What do people think cheaters talk and act like, ax murderers or something?

...Except that's not his basis for concluding that Ritz isn't doping. He looked at the fact that Ritz has had a hell of a lot of injury problems in the past yet still run very well, so one would expect him to be capable of a performance like this now that he has lots of healthy training under his belt. I agree.

That 811 isn't what you think it is. 811, plugged into any "predictor" calculating apparatus predicted all of Ritz's PR's combined including the marathon to within 30 sec, combined. The marathon was the biggest outlier and pointed to ~2:09:3x, - he ran 2:10:00 the 811>13:16>27:35>1:01:3x>2:10:00 which were all his PRs at the time - sorry to bubble burst.

Bear of Bad News wrote:

lololol wrote:

riiiiight, he dropped something like 20 seconds off his PR? and you people go crazy when vessey drops 2-3 seconds off of hers?

How about 8:11 years ago?

2 time Footlocker Champ over Webb, Hall, Solinsky etc

2 time HS 2 mile champ, 8:41

4th at NCAA Cross True Freshman best since....Bob K

13:44 Freshman year

13:22 as a soph despite injuries

1st at NCAA Cross as Junior over Hall

2004 Olympian 10K, best of 27:38 NCAA record in debut

USA XC 12K champ 2005 and won Belfast race over Kenyans. Plus another 13:22

2006- 13:16, 27:35, 61 min 1/2 mar and 2:14 mar debut

2007 - 8:11 2 mile, 2:11 2nd place US Oly trials

2008 - 9th Olympic Marathon over Hall. US XC Champ

2009- 6th at Worlds 10K in 27:22, finally busts out again 12:56 AR 5K

Honestly since HS he has been top of the line, more so than Hall and more consistently than Webb. And both of them hade HUGE breakouts as in 3:46 AR mile for Webb and 2:06 Marathon (American born record) for Hall. He has always been ahead of those two, head to head and overall. The slew of injuries slowed hima nd honestly the training with Hudson while providing a monster base didnt allow him the speed as it was MAR training and he didn't have the partners (compare Torres & Hartman to Rupp, Teg etc and now Webb)

blew out an o ring wrote:

That 811 isn't what you think it is. 811, plugged into any "predictor" calculating apparatus predicted all of Ritz's PR's combined including the marathon to within 30 sec, combined. The marathon was the biggest outlier and pointed to ~2:09:3x, - he ran 2:10:00 the 811>13:16>27:35>1:01:3x>2:10:00 which were all his PRs at the time - sorry to bubble burst.

Bear of Bad News wrote:

How about 8:11 years ago?

Put it into perspective, or context. Where was 8:11 run? Prefontaine classic.

How many runners peak for Prefontaine classic (elite not NCAA runners)? Actually how many even peak for within a month or two of Prefontaine classic? The answer for the top runners will be 0.

What was the AR for two miles while Kennedy was running 7:30 & 12:58? 8:12. What was Kennedy's best every for 2 miles? 8:11.

What was Ritz training for when he ran 8:11? Marathon. Given all that context and perspective, do you still want to use your calculator as the ruling athority on capability? Because as almost every runner proves it doesn't hold true.

Also if you asked in 2000 or 2004 - 2006 if Teg was able for a 13:04 would Ritz be 12:56 and people would say yes.

And I forgot his 3rd at World Junior XC behind Bekele.

Camoo wrote:

What I think is that I know about more about this particular instance than you do.

We know what you think but we also recognize it as being irrational thought.

I don't know what to make of this and it would be unfair to accuse him of doping.

But I will say this: if anyone else outside of the US made such a huge reduction in time in their 5k, people would be all over this in a very negative light.

Thats all I'm saying....

I honestly forgot he ran 13:22 as a soph despite injuries. I don't know the extent of his injuries but that is a BIG mark. I'm assuming Cardinal Invite?

Doing that in 2001 to me is actually bigger than Fernandez's 13:25 at USA's as a freshman simply because where fernandez was as a senior in high school and how much the bar has been raised by Ritz, Webb, Hall and Rupp up to now. That makes me really laugh at those who didn't think he'd run under 13:10 today despite his WC 10K performance.

Irrational, huh? Because I've familiarized myself with the guy, his ethics, his potential, and his progress?

icd9, it must suck to be you.

I'm sure you believe that, too. You can't know his ethics, I don't care if you have made-out with him.