Goucher = run to win; Davilla = run to place as high as possible

I prefer Davilla's strategy.

It is always better to run your best, than to hope you will win.

Well then you also have to admitGoucher = WC failure. Didn't live up to her own hypeDavilla = Dramatic success

Tai Webb wrote:

Let's be clear of the difference when looking at final results:

Goucher = run to win

Davilla = run to place as high as possible

Goucher did NOT run to win. She couldn't or didn't even move with the top 6 when they broke away, well before the finish....and I've never even heard of Davilia before.

The "running to place as high as possible" is why the US has been a non-factor on the international scene. Until our runners believe they can win and run that way we'll remain a 2nd or 3rd tier distance running country.

Although Kara may never be our champion, along with AlSal she's bringing the right mentality to American distance running.

Davila set a personal best by three and half minutes. Until Kastor runs a decent marathon again, Davila is clearly one of the top two American woman marathoners. She took a huge step and every one of her statements indicates she has no intention of stopping there. Shut the hell up.

What bothers me about KG is she sets herself up for failure. I don't think her expectations are too high necessarily (10K bronze proves she has the talent/wheels), but when you beat yourself up after every race for not winning... how is that good for her mentally/emotionally? It's just kind of a loser attitude and it seems like she'll never be happy. Even the greatest in the world don't win every time, but perhaps they have a different attitude about it? Watching her interviews after every race and her reaction, her career seems like it's going in a really depressing direction.

HC wrote: along with AlSal she's bringing the right mentality to American distance running.

Funny, AlSal and mentality don't seem to match.

Tai Webb wrote:

Let's be clear of the difference when looking at final results:

Goucher = run to win

Davilla = run to place as high as possible

You=Idiot

Place as high as possible? What's 1st place, is that the highest possible?

Davilla ran to win. Running to win is giving yourself the best chance to place as high as possible. If putting yourself with the leaders does not give you the best chance to finish as high as possible, then you are not running to win.

This race was a tough example...what if the race went out in 107:50....and Goucher went with it, and died off along with everyone else who went at that pace.....that wouldn't be called going for the win, that'd be called being stupid.

Davilla went out at a pace (really not that much off of the leaders) and it was well under her PR pace, and she finished with a huge PR. She ran within herself and it resulted in the best she was capable of, which means she ran to win.

Goucher didn't run to win. When the lead pack made a move, she didn't. The winning time was slower than her PR, the weather was good, the course not too difficult. She may have given it her best shot, but she didn't show a lot of guts.

The winner's last two marathons were in the 2:30's and 2:40's, but somehow she believed she could win.

Why didn't Goucher have this mentality?

I like Kara and think she's great. I like Salazar as a coach, but the first thing he's got to do is get his runners believing they can run with these front-runners.

Des will only get better. I'm pumped for her! Great job Des!

Goucher: not capable of winning

Davila (not "Davilla," dumbass): capable of placing as high as possible

Here is the bottom line baby:

Goucher simply had unrealistic expectations. She is not in the same league as the winners. Davilla ran a smart race based on realistic expectations.

End of thread.

How can Goucher not be in the same league as the winner? The winner's last two marathons were 2:35 and 2:42, and she wasn't even considered a medal contender.

Goucher has an impressive resume, but like most American distance runners, she folded the tent in the big meet. Goucher can run that winning time. It was set up for her and she got psyched out.

Kara blew her fluids big time. She has problems keeping fluids down in the heat. Had it been cooler (it was low 70s), it may have been a different story. A long list of marathon talent crashed and burned with her. That is just how world championships go. Radcliffe has yet to even get close in a world event.

As for Davila, her 2:27 will get her better $ to go to the big races. Had she gone out with the lead pack and crashed hard, she would have ended up with a high 2:30. In other words, by racing for time, she has put herself in a position where she can now start racing to win. She is only 26 and could only muster a 2:44 in 2007. As the chick song goes, her book is still unwritten.

How did Radliffe do in Helsinki, again?

Shutterfly wrote:

What bothers me about KG is she sets herself up for failure. I don't think her expectations are too high necessarily (10K bronze proves she has the talent/wheels), but when you beat yourself up after every race for not winning... how is that good for her mentally/emotionally? It's just kind of a loser attitude and it seems like she'll never be happy. Even the greatest in the world don't win every time, but perhaps they have a different attitude about it? Watching her interviews after every race and her reaction, her career seems like it's going in a really depressing direction.

You know, I was thinking watching her interview today that having a child may actually be the best thing for her career. Put some balance in there. Maybe then, she'll retain her passion to win, yet know that winning isn't everything, which just might be the right formula to let it happen. Sometimes it seems that when you start to care just a teeny bit less, you are able to relax more, which gives you more positive energy.

Does anyone think Goucher should not have moved up to the marathon (yet)? The problem with championship marathons is you really have to be at the top of your game on that day. I guess that's true for winning a medal at any distance, but somehow I can't imagine Goucher getting 10th in the 5,000 final in Berlin. Granted, it took a sub 15:00 to medal, but I think Goucher should have been there or the 10.

Also, Salazar seems to be influencing her to run Boston and New York as opposed to going for faster times at London or Berlin or Chicago. If the goal is just to become a household name in the US, good luck with that approach.

Similarly, Ryan Hall should have stuck with the formula he had going at the London marathon, instead of switching it up in Boston and now New York this fall.

It's not just about fast times, but it might be a good approach for some of the top American runners to show they can run world class times.

For instance, when Teg and Solinsky can run sub 13:00, then maybe we'll see them up with Lagat and Bekele in the last lap. When is a US guy going to run sub 27 in the 10,000? Let's just hope Salazar can get Ritz or Rupp under that before they move up like Goucher did.

I hate all of you, just as much as all you hate U.S. distance runners. Why don't you a$$holes just go watch football and basketball like most other a$$holes of your type? There's some actual controversy in it(like guns, murders, animal cruelty) as opposed to the contrived garbage you morons come up with. How anybody could put a negative spin on a brilliant and breakthrough race like Davila's is beyond me.

Tai Webb wrote:

Let's be clear of the difference when looking at final results:

Goucher = run to win

Davilla = run to place as high as possible

I agree. That's why I'm very hesitant to say that anyone other than the winner of a marathon actually beat another runner. If Davila had passed Goucher right before the finish line, I don't think it would have been appropriate to say that she beat Goucher. She simply would have passed a runner who, in my view, reasonably competed in the race for the medals and came up short. Davila apparently didn't think that she was good enough to compete with the top runners, so she set her sights lower. I don't fault either runner for a race strategy that comported with their own assessment of their abilities at the time. Goucher had ample reason to believe that she could win or at least medal, and Davila apparently had insufficient reason to believe that she could do the same.