Women's training and recovery thread - 8/23/09

Glad to hear it was a positive experience overall and also that the weather has finally been kind. Sounds like a nice race.

I watched the women's marathon and it was one of the most exciting races of the championships. The way Davila ran was impressive. I thought Zhou might've caught them at the end but it wasn't to be. During the men's marathon the previous day and also during the women's marathon they read out the questions I'd emailed in to the BBC and answered them on TV! It was interesting to hear Steve Cram and Brendan Foster discuss it. lol. (FWIW I asked about their opinions on being self-coached the first day and on the second day I asked what kind of mileage they thought was typical for the women's field if any of you heard it but I'm guessing none of you were watching on the BBC).

As for me, there has been some progress, slower than I thought but definite progress. I've now ditched the crutches and am walking - 'unsteady' is probably the best way to describe it but things are going in the right direction and I completed a 5 minute walk.

Hope the rest of you are having good weeks.

Nice job at Crim, Humbled! And trackchick -- yay! for walking unassisted. I'm glad things are looking up.

As for me, approximately 71 miles this week. I'm cutting back on the mileage, and adding in the speed! I did two hard workouts this week, plus a “medium-hard” – this was a substantially increased training load, but I compensated by dropping my mileage.

I've had to do my workouts in "sets" with limited recovery between intervals within a set, but full recovery between each set, due to the heat and humidity in this area. I'm not happy about this, but it is what it is, and better than heat exhaustion.

Next week will be a recovery week, as I’ll be stuck either on airplanes or in all-day meetings next week.

Monday: No running. 45 minutes on arc-trainer, plus weights.

Tuesday: First track workout! 10 miles on the track, including 1.25 miles warm-up, and then 3 sets of 4x(400M on, 200M jog), with the “on” ranging between 1:30 and 1:34 (average pace of 6:11). I did full recovery between each set of four. I did 4 miles afterwards at easy pace as a cooldown.

In the evening, 30 minutes on the elliptical, plus yoga

Wednesday: 16 miles total. In the morning, 12.5 easy miles outside (8:28 pace), plus 6 hill repeats of 14 seconds each up hill of 17% slope. In the evening, 3.5 very easy miles (but including a large, long hill) – 8:28 pace)

Thursday: In the morning, 8.5 very easy miles outside on dust trail (9:02 pace) plus 6 hill repeats of 14 seconds each up hill of 17% slope, and weight training. In the evening, 15 minutes on the elliptical, plus yoga.

Friday: 14 miles on the treadmill, including a tempo workout of 3 miles, 1.5 miles, and 1.5 miles, each at 6:49 pace, with 5 minutes jogging recovery between each. After the last interval, I immediately did a practice kick of .11 miles at 5:30 pace.

I had initially planned 2x3 miles at tempo pace, but realized that the effort would be too close to race effort, given the gym conditions (it’d be really nice if they could turn on the AC, at least. I’ve given up on them getting fans)

Saturday: 8.5 very easy miles outside on dust trail (8:51 pace) plus 10 hill repeats of 14 seconds each up hill of 17% slope,

Sunday: 14 miles. My second track workout. After a warm-up, I did three sets of 3x(600m on, 200m jog) with full recovery between each set. So, 9 intervals total, with the pace of the intervals ranging between 6:04 and 6:16 pace (with the exception of one where I had to dodge a lot of traffic!). Practice kick immediately after the last one of 100m at 5:22 pace.

Then, I did 8x200m, with 200m jogging recovery – the intervals ranged between 40 and 42 seconds, for paces between 5:22 and 5:38. I followed up with a cool-down jog of 3 miles through the neighborhood next to the track.

Yay for progress Track Chickee Pie and good job at Crim Humbled, way to up the ante the last mile... Darkwave you are just a running and a running and a running, always a good log!

As for yours truly, a very solid week, 57 total for 6 days of running which included some doubles and a nice long run of 14 miles this morning along the country roads here in SC.

14 is the longest run I have done in more than a year so the stamina is there, gots to find the speed....

The day off comprised my run in the pool which is so swishy and therapeutic for tired legs, I do a power hour with 20x60 secs hard 60 sec rest, debating whether to make that 22 reps tomorrow :o)

Yes Desiree was amazing and has a bright future ahead, Joanie is also amazing at the Masters end of the scale which is where I am ... so crazy to think how fast my running career has flown.

Of course I have unfinished bizz, will tell you more about it once it is completed.

Have a wonderful week one and all :o)

Hi all -- quick post since I have to go put the rice on. :)

Things are going really well for me. Which of course has been waiting for the great sucker punch of fate I keep thinking is lurking around the corner (if a punch can lurk).

With Humbled racing again and track chick off crutches, the "recovery" in the thread title may threaten to become a misnomer sometime soon. I can only hope!

It's interesting that you all noted Davila's race today. Hers was the highlight for me. It was very inspiring and thrilling to watch her work her way up from 20th+ to 11th.

On a completely different note, I had visions of the French team's coach with steam coming out of his or her ears. Those first few that came in had enough energy to disco dance with Berlino while the others around them were on the verge of collapse. I think they could have run harder. :)

http://raceslikeagirl.com/2009/08/23/summer-basebuilding-week-8/

One thing I didn't understand was the number of people wearing hats in the race. Whenever I've worn a cap or a buff it's made me feel a lot hotter than normal. They might have some space age cap to keep cool but after 26 miles of running I can't see how it's still cool and surely it prevents heat escaping off your head, which as far as I know is the main place heat escapes from.

I used to wear hats or a Bbuff on hot days too, but mostly to keep my hair -- which was too short to pull back but long enough to fly in my face -- under control. Once I cut all my hair off I realized it's a lot more comfortable to run in heat with nothing on your head. So maybe it was a hair thing.

Also, that heat loss fact is apparently a myth:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/dec/17/medicalresearch-humanbehaviour

As for what to do with those buffs: If you cut one in half, they make great "sweat mops" for longer, hot runs. Tie a small knot in one end and you can tuck it into your waistband.

Well, I've developed a bit of a problem...

2 weeks ago was a down week for me. Just did 35 miles (in 4 days). I was then on vacation from friday-monday so I decided to take those days off of running. I had been building up my mileage for 4 weeks so I figured it was a good time for a down week. Plus I was having some minor, nagging aches and pains and I thought the time off would help heal those up a bit. Well, I was wrong...

For some reason taking 4 days off turned a minor, nagging issue into a full blown injury. I was having some groin/inner thigh pain for a while....but nothing too serious. Now it seems to be a significant groin strain. My run last tuesday...first run after 4 days off...the leg hurt so much I limped for about the first quarter mile. The limping has gotten a little less severe, but I still limp at the beginning of each run, and the leg hurts with pretty much every step I take during the run (and often hurts just walking around too). It does eventually go away during the run (about 5 miles into my 10 miler and 7 miles into my 18 miler this past week). I have been heating it, icing it, taking Aleve, etc in hopes of managing it enough so I can keep running. The marathon is 6 weeks away and I'm in too good of shape to not run this marathon! I know I have a great chance of qualifying for Boston.

So now I'm a little torn about what to do....I have 3 weeks of hard training left before I can start tapering. This is the main part of my training (still have a 20 and 22 miler to do), so I'm afraid to cut back too much. I feel like I need to get this training in to run a good marathon, and I don't want to lose the fitness I already have. Of course if the injury gets much worse I might not be able to run at all! So I don't know if I should just try to push through these next 3 weeks and then rest a little more once I get into the taper. Or if I should cut back now and risk losing some fitness. I'm thinking this week I'll do the elliptical 2 days and then run 4 days...including a 20 miler. I'll see how that goes and then plan from there.

As for last week, it looked like this:

Monday - off

Tuesday - 3.5 miles easy. Had 6 planned but I had a migraine, the groin strain was bad, and then because of that I think I was running differently so my shins started to hurt. It seemed stupid to be running so I cut it short.

Wednesday - 5.25 miles easy. Felt a little better than yesterday but groin still hurting and again the shins were a bit of a problem. Cut this a little short too...wanted to do 7.

Thursday - 10 miles (8:27 pace). Finally a decent run! I was surprised at how easy this felt. 5 miles into the run the leg finally stopped hurting.

Friday - 7.5 miles - speed workout. 2.25 mile warm-up, 4x100m strides, 4x1000 w/3 min rest (4:08, 4:05, 4:04, 4:04), 2x400m hard/400m jog, 1.5 mile cooldown. Good workout. Groin injury warmed up a little faster and actually felt ok during the fast stuff (just the first several steps of each interval hurt). I'm just getting into the speed work (everything to this point has been tempo) so I took a little longer rest than I probably should have, but I wanted to keep the intervals fast. I actually did them faster than expected. I thought about doing 5, but since they were quality ones, and with the leg being so bad, I decided not to push it.

Saturday - 18 miles (8:38 pace). This was a lot easier than I thought it'd be! I just wanted to keep it easy and not worry about pace, but I ended up running a great pace! (my goal marathon pace is 8:25 so to be running only 13 seconds slower per mile and have it feel easy is great!). The groin hurt every step I took for the first 7 miles, but then got better.

Sunday - 6 miles easy. Just a shakeout run after the long run yesterday.

Hit 50.25 miles for the week. Wanted to hit 55, but 50 isn't too bad considering everything.

If anyone has any tips on running through a groin strain, let me know! It will take a lot for me to miss this marathon so I'm trying to get through this as best I can!

I hate to tell you this but an injury is an injury, I was hurt for 4 yrs by persisting on trying to train through what ended up becoming an entrapped femoral nerve in the inguinal area close to the hip/groin...The thing that started to happen was as I continued to run compromised and in pain other muscles were recruited to do the job my quad etc could not do, and next thing you know true compensation and full blown problems that I am still working through even now.

Look at the big picture, Boston is not going anywhere... you can always pick another marathon and back off now if you had to...

The groin is not getting better 7 miles into a run it is simply that your body is so warmed up with endorphins kicked in you do not "feel" it till afterward.

At the least see if you can find an ART ( Active Release Therapist) in your area, they tend to be Chiropracters, and get the issue addressed to some degree if you can. You can google an ART directory by state, and you need someone with training in lower extremeity, nerve entrappments and master training as well as if possible Biomechanics also, the Practioner should have their skills listed by the rest of their info on the directory.

Hope this helps, I have been down the injury road for a long season and would not wish that on a soul, so throttle back if you have to, far better than to be on the sidelines.

Hi All-

Humbled, congrats onthe great Crim. I love that race. I wish I lived closer so I could do it every year.

Track Chick, glad things are improving!

RLAG and DW- I love reading your logs. All your miles and workouts impress the heck out of me.

BQ - I'm with Sarah. I had a similar groin thing training for Boston 2007, and it got to the point where I could not run through the pain and I ended up taking 2 weeks off and doing the elliptical, which didn't hurt it. I also got ART and PT, which involved a lot of core work and some pulling on my legs because my hips were out of alignment from guarding the area while running. One hip was like an inchi higher than the other. I think you can still run a good race if you get some attention for it.

Sarah - glad the running is going well. Can't wait to hear about your next race, whenever that is!

Fallback week for me with only 45 miles. It felt weird not running more, but I think my legs are grateful. I had a good 22-miler at 8:30 pace, and that felt nice and easy. I also did a workout with one 2-mile segment and one 3-mile, both at a pace between marathon and tempo pace. I felt good and was able to run the last mile at 6:58 pace, which was nice. This week has a 2x3 mile workout tonight and an 18-mile lomg run. I am aiming for 60 miles.

Have a good week, all!

I totally understand what you're saying, and part of me knows it's not the smartest thing to be running with this injury. But the marathon is so close! And this is the best shape I've been in in a long time, so it's hard to just throw that all out the window right now. I know there's a possibility it may come to that though. But I'm taking it one day at a time, and I'll see what I can do.

I did just make an appointment with a chiropractor/sports med guy (I don't think he's an ART though...I'll have to look into that). I'll see him Thursday. I'm hoping he'll be able to do some treatments that will at least help manage it for the next 6 weeks so I can make it through the marathon.

I actually had this same injury (same leg and everything) last fall. I ran through it for a couple weeks but then knew I needed to rest it. It took a couple months of no running for it to fully go away. I'm sure it'll be the same this time (which is why I'd rather get through the marathon, and then take a couple months off if needed). I also need to figure out what's wrong with this leg that this keeps happening so I can prevent this from happening again.

Thanks for your advice.

i'll second WATC's statements about 'most everyone's encouraging week, and i'm especially happy to hear of the improvement in track chick's knees. BQ, you should definitely find someone experienced and accredited in ART. it could be that even a couple of (none-too-comfortable!) sessions could put you back on track and running happy right now, rather than running through pain and making things worse.

for those who missed my late-week post last time, the good news is that on my third short trial run hoping to get back on the trails following my stress-fracture-induced summer off my feet, my tibia felt fine; the bad news is that i jammed my other ankle and acutely strained a little ligament that connects the calcaneus to the talus on the medial side of the non-SF'ed leg. with lots of ART, icing, and rest, i'm seeing day-by-day improvement and hope to be able to ditch the crutches in another few days. i'm also going to try a short bike ride tomorrow, which i think shouldn't strain it further. this is not what i was hoping for at this point in the summer, especially with a 100-mile cycling event in less than three weeks and colder weather settling in thereafter, and am not sure whether to be encouraged or discouraged to hear that this injury should heal faster than the SF, because even "faster" could still be an awfully long time. so, RLAG, i think we need to keep "recovery" in the thread's title, at least for a little while longer.

happy trails, all.

A4BQ, I reluctantly agree with the others -- take care of this injury. I say "reluctantly" because I'm an idiot who trained through a groin strain for three months. I got lucky in that it didn't get worse and it did eventually go away.

But if it's actually altering your stride, that's a bad thing and shouldn't be ignored for all the "domino effect" reasons Sarah stated.

FWIW, I found that running up or down hills aggravated mine, so I avoided those for awhile. I also cut back on anything requiring a big stride (speed intervals and strideouts).

Have you looked back on what may have precipitated it? New shoes? Running on a different surface or cambered road? Sudden jump in mileage or speedwork? I traced one niggling issue in 2008 to a new shoe model, so maybe it's a simple fix.

Yeah, pain I can deal with but I get a little more worried when I start limping because I do worry about injuring other things due to compensation.

I did find an ART in my area, who apparently is also a marathon runner. So I'll try to get in to see her and see if she can help.

I've pretty much resigned myself to doing a combination of running and cross training until the marathon. I'm hoping that cut back will be enough to get me through.

I remember the day that I initially injured the leg (this time). I had done a hard tempo workout, which was fine, but when I was stretching afterwards, I felt it tweak a little bit...stretched a little too far I guess. I was a little worried right away because I knew it was the same area that I had injured in the fall. But it never got really bad until this past week.

What caused it the first time I'm not sure. I think I just over did it one day...I do also remember the day that it started then. I did speed work that day too and some intense lifting before that. And I'm assuming that once it's injured once it's easier to do it again.

A4BQ, do let us know how the ART session goes and how you feel thereafter.

here's a brief -- and encouraging -- iron update, reported as (aug 20; jun 22; (normal)):

hemoglobin: (13.6; 11.0; (12.0-16.0 g/dL))

hematocrit: (33; 40; (35-47%))

serum ferritin (<10; 22; (11-307 ng/mL))

so there's definite progress, and it's been reflected in my general energy and cycling paces. the doc who emailed me the results (in whom i don't have huge confidence), said "good results. keep doing what you're doing."

sarah, RLAG, or others with knowledge and/or experience, would you read this as continuing with 27 mg ferrochel twice daily (i'm experiencing no gastric abnormalities at all, and i eat no red meat).

oops. i screwed up that reporting. should be as follows (all factors improved):

(aug 20; jun 22; (normal))

hemoglobin: (13.6; 11.0; (12.0-16.0 g/dL))

hematocrit: (40; 33; (35-47%))

serum ferritin: (22; <10; (11-307 ng/mL))

I'm always a bit wary of taking twice the dosage of anything. But, while your numbers are a lot better than they were in June, the Ferritin is still on lowish side.

I do know that you don't want to play around with iron toxicity. So perhaps the thing to do is continue for a bit longer, see if you're still feeling good (and performing better), then get another CBC/ferritin as a new baseline.

I agree not to double dose iron red meat consumption or no. I take the same supplement x1 per day and will get a recheck on the SF levels soon. 22 is still low end of norm but improved from nearly zilch.. Just be patient with the process.

The best I can tell I always need to be on iron as I bottom out without a supplement historically.

Just ordered more Ferochel as it is a great supplement and does not cause stomach distress which is a huge plus.

Since I am running many miles now comfortably I would say that the iron is way improved for which I am mighty grateful.

:O)

I'm also taking Ferrochel, but I took Feosol for a week or so while awaiting Ferrochel's arrival from Amazon. Neither caused problems. Maybe I just have an "iron" stomach, ha ha.

Glad to hear you are on your way to get those iron levels up, Races Like a Girl. I just got good news from an MRI about my knee surgery. Apparently, the surgery did work, but I'm still having pain because of weak quads in that leg and my knee is still mad about being operated on (there's still a joint effusion). But these are things that should be fixable with time and strengthening, no more surgeries for me! :-)