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| The Long Wait |
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Since the beginning of IAAF (back in the early 1900s) there has been a steady progress of records. But it seems that we are having to wait longer and longer for the next world records. All records in the IAAF era 800m progression men: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_record_progression_800_metres -The longest standing world record for the 800m was set by Rudolph Harbig of Germany. The record of 1:46.6 lasted for 16 years (1939-55) - The current world record for the 800m set by Wilson Kipketer of Denmark is nearly 12 years old. 800m progression women -The longest standing world record for the women's 800m is the current world record set by Jarmila Kratchovilova (153.28 of Czechleslovakia) which is nearly 26 years old. 1500m progression men http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_record_progression_1500_metres -The longest standing world record for the men's 1500m is the current world record set by El G in 1998 (11 years old) 1500m progression women -The longest standing world record for the women's 1500m is the current world record set by Qu Yunxia of China in 1993 (almost 16 years old) Mile progression men -The longest standing world record for the men's Mile is the current world record set by El G in 1999 (10 years old) Women's Mile progression The longest standing world record for the women's Mile is the current world record set by Svetlana Masterkova of Russia in 1996 (almost 13 years old) 3000m progression men http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_record_progression_for_the_Men%27s_3,000_m The longest standing world record for the men's 3000m is the current world record set by Daniel Komen in 1996 (almost 13 years old) 3000m progression women The longest standing world record for the women's 3000m is the current world record set by Wang Junxia in 1993 (almost 16 years old) 5000m progression men -The longest standing world record for the men's 5000m is 10 years between 1912 and 1922 held by Hannes Kolehmainen (FIN) - The current world record held by Kenny Bekele is already 5 years old. 5000m progression women -The longest standing world record for the women's 5000m is 9 years between 1986 and 1995 held by Ingrid Kristiansen (NOR) - The current world record for the women's 5000m is 1 year old 10,000m progression men -The longest standing world record for the men's 10,000m is 13 years between 1924 and 1937 held by Paavo Nurmi (FIN) - The current world record held by Kenny Bekele is almost 4 years old. 10,000m progression women -The longest world record for the women's 10km is the current world record held by Wang Junxia which is almost 16 years old. 3000m SC men's -The longest record for the men's steeplechase is 11 years old between 1978 and 89 held by Henry Rono -The current record by Saif Saaeed Shaheen (QAT) is nearly 5 years old 3000m SC women's -The longest record for the women's SC is 4 years by Gulnara Samitova-Galkina (RUS) 2004-2008 -Gulnara Samitova-Galkina (RUS) is also the current WR holder and her new record is almost 1 year old (set at the Beijing Olympics) 8/14 of the IAAF recognized mid-long distance track events are currently being held for the longest time in history. It seems like we should see a lot of records falling soon (unless we are rapidly approaching our human limitations) discuss. |
| Steve Holt |
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Steve Holt! |
| BA |
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not to mention no one ever breaks 1:43 anymore, let alone 1:41 low... |
| Heman |
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Terry Holt! |
| ass you tote |
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Duh. Did you really expect a linear improvement? |
| The Long Wait |
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No, I didn't. But, as it turns out, until the last ten years or so records continued to be bested on a fairly regular basis. If you look at the mile progression from 1912 to 1999 it is nearly a linear progression, however the 10 year gap in this record seems to indicate a sudden leveling out. |
| some creep |
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drugs allowed for the linear progression from 1980-2000s. |
| shoes and tracks |
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Maybe the problem is that shoe companies and track surface makers have stopped innovating. |
| photofinish |
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Drug testing starting to catch up to the athletes ... they don't take the really good drugs anymore, just the OK drugs that don't come up positive. The really good drugs would get us 9.45, 18.99, 42.66, 1:39.77, 3:23, 3:39, 7:15, 12:24, and 25:58. Most of the women's "records" will never be touched for that reason. |
| ventolin |
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that is a good answer the iaaf have mandated 65% energy return for tracks for at least before '91, so getting faster tracks thru better, more "feet friendly", etc materials must be virtually at an end we may now be looking at only improvements thru physical size of guys thru nutrition every generation ( ~25y ) gets taller by 1" & so will their stride proportionately if say, today, top 10 guys over 1500 are 5'10" & 3'30 average, in 25y, you may expect top 10 to be 3'30 * (5'10"/5'11") = 3'27.04 |
| huh? |
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so taller people run faster? this is news to me. |
| SRtimesSL |
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Assuming stride rate stays equal, and stride length increases, then yes, taller people run faster. Traditionally shorter people have been faster because of their faster stride rates and higher running economies, but once in awhile a tall person comes along with similar running economy/stride rate but longer stride length (Bolt is a recent example). |
| ventolin |
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the average height of field going up from 5'10 to 5'11 in 25y with cardiovascular system keeping up |
| paying customer |
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If our average elite miler now is 5-10 130lbs Growing 1" and increasing mass in such a way as to keep BMI constant would yield: 5-11 134lbs so our 1.4% increase in stride length costs us 3.0% in body mass. What's more - the legs will actually have increased moments of inertia (basically how much force it takes to move the leg from the hip)from the hip - resulting in a running economy penalty. Assuming the leg increases in total mass by 3%, and in length by 1.4%, the moment of inertia will increase by 7.4%. Can the aerobic/muscular system keep up? To a point, yes, because efficiency isn't everything and there will never be a 4'0" tall 3:40 miler due to the difficulty in maintain the necessary cadence at that size, but a simple analysis reveals that significant height gains quickly become a losing proposition. |
| xxx |
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tall people are not dominating middle and long distance. In the marathon, i'd say short people dominate. There goes your "theory" |
| racetraining |
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Times are going to slip backwards for a while due to better drug testing. I believe that most every track world record is dirty, esp Mens 1500m and Mile and womens 100m to 10,000m with the one exception being the 5000m. Once again a 13 min 5000m for the men will be about as fast as they go. We will see a few in the 12:50's but it could be a long wait till we see another sub 12:50 |
| ventolin |
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BMI is a pretty nonsense fixed parameter to base arguments normal weight is 20 - 25, so there is a huge variation in ideal weight for a 1500'er i don't know how you want to interpret the moment of inertia argument - how do you want to modify the improvement from 3'30 to 3'27 ? the more global limiting factor is the power/wt ratio i remember reading the factor for lengthening the guy : http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?p=478708#478708 http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?p=478871#478871 which -> if a 5'10"/3'30 guy was "stretched" overnight to 5'11" with concomitant power increase, his time now woud be ~ 3'30 * ( 70/71 )^1/3 = 3'29.00 with a generation of 25y, the ratio probably gets to basic ratio of 70/71 & 3'27 |
| The Long Wait |
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Has anyone studied success in distance running with respect to proportianality of the runner's bodies. For example what are the proportions of the top miler's legs to body, or torso to body, or foot size to body size, or ankle size... I'm also interested that no one has mentioned training as a factor. Has training theory come to a standstill. |
| Shanghai noons |
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Torry Holt? |
| progress |
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I would expect that the number of athletes in near-world-record shape in any time period to be roughly constant. Modern-day record breakers will slice the bologna very thinly so to speak--we will not see anyone lower the men's 5k record by 11 seconds a la Haile G. And most of the long-lasting current records, especially on the women's side, are questionable. I would be very skeptical of anything run in the 90's in China and and Russia. Most of those athletes did almost no racing outside their home country and quickly disappeared from the scene after their records. Obviously these are unfair generalizations but you get the idea. |
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