| wellnow |
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A good question. I think that the evolution of World Records has more to do with the evolution of racing than with any new training. Please bear in mind that these training methods are relativley new, i.e. since the early seventies, which is the time I believe when it was realized that the pioneering days were over, and 'modern training' was established. Since then all the best runners do variations of these types of training. So that's less than 40 years with a steady progress of race times coming down, due to more money, better fields, more fast races and many more full time runners. Add to this, the fact that EPO was certainly being used by some runners, although not necessarily the fastest ones. If you look back to the seventies, runners like Bill Rodgers did a huge number of races. I think in one year he did seven Marathons, which begs the question; how fast could he have run if he had today's advantages? Although he would probably answer that he loved his Marathons, and got a huge amount of public support. So isn't it true to say that in a fast race, we should expect the fastest guys to be running 2.04-2.05 in the fastest races, and that when conditions are average, 2.07-2.08 is also to be expected? |
| wellnow |
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To answer your question about why are Africans faster? There are countless thousands of fast young African runners waiting to break through, but only a few in each other country. The prospect of fast times by Africans is at least a statistical inevitability regardless of cultural issues. |
| xxx |
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taking Kibet from 2.20 with high mileage to 2.05 with moderate mileage with a new italian coach smells fishy. Sorry guys. |
| wellnow |
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But you think that everyone who is fast is doped. You must be a cycling fan. |
| xxx |
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no, i don't think Wariner is a doper. |
| you are so misled |
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Iam a friend of Duncan Kibet.Do not believe for a second the stories that he does not train hard and that he just does moderate mileage and chill out.Duncan trains very very hard.He is not lazy as he has been potrayed.My own younger brother trains with duncan regularly and the sort of training they do is not for the faint-hearted. |
| xxx |
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I never said so. I think he is training very hard - and since you know him, perhaps you could give us some specifics?? I just said that the combo 2.20->2.05+italian coach smells fishy. |
| okey |
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-3 long intervals sessions every week. -A 38K long run on hilly terrain once every 10 days -20K all out run on the roads;once a week. Traning grounds/routes a) For the long run Sirgoit hills in ELDORET OR Kaptagat forest. b) For the 20K road run, a place called Kapseter in eldoret OR Kesses. c)Intervals.Chepkoilel campus stadium. |
| xxx |
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tx. what is their weekly mileage? and is the rest filler (easy) mileage? |
| okey |
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The second training session after every interval training is a recovery run which you can call easy milliage.the rest of the sessions are not easy .Their intervals sessions are staggering. They are never concerned about total milliage...so they rarely sit down and do the weekly total milliage.Instead they focus on having atleast two training sessions per day, 3+ quality interval sessions a week,one very long run every 10 days and one 20K time trial run. |
| xxx |
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this seems to be contradicting Canova's post in which it says they often train only once a day?? |
| okey |
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Canova's post is right in terms of the sort of workouts they do and the approach and attitude towards training.But Canova does not interact with those athletes frequently so he may not know the number of sessions they do but he is spot on on the specific workouts .By the way Canova is based in Iten most of the times when he is in kenya whereas Duncan and his groups are based mainly in eldoret .They sometimes go to iten but only once in awhile. |
| xxx |
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how about weekly mileage? I know you said they focusing on it but Canova mentions 140km/week. Thanks! |
| okey |
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I would say aprox 160K but with lots of very hard workout sessions.But as i said they are not keen on total mileage.They purely focus on the specific workouts that are on the training program for a particualr period. |
| stoffel |
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Sorry to ask deeper okay. But what about the times they are not running intervals or long run or the fast run (depending on the week 2 - 3 days). Are those recovery runs twice a day? Also what pace is that 20 km all out, make us jealous? And what about his long run pace is that fast? Fast like renato described ? Thanks |
| MAYEROFF |
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I think that when Renato says "130-150km/week" he means the REAL RUNNING, not the 7:00 miles where you jog with your buddies and tell bad jokes and stories.... When he says "130km to 140km per week" he means the running that is 90% to 105% of marathon pace. 20km all out + 35-45km long run + 3 interval sessions @ 25km per session = 130 to 140km per week. THIS PROGRAMME IS VERY DIFFICULT, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, but you have to remember that this is marathon pace, not 10km pace or 5km pace. If you add in the recovery jogs, yes it has to be over 200km per week. Based on my own modest (2:18) experiences in running, YES, when you hone in on the pace that is important for the race you training for, you will succeed at training for that distance! Jason |
| Friday the 13th |
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Jason, don't jump in with assumptions, if you don't know for sure what you are talking about. I mean, maybe you are correct, but if you didn't talk to these guys specifically, didn't train with them, or stalk them, don't tell us what their mileage is for sure. Renato said, 130-150km, the other guy said ~160km, and they seem to have a lot more direct contact with Kibet/Kwambi than you, right? Let's let Rentao chime in: RENATO! counting even warm-ups and jogs, what is their total km's or miles per week....WHEN.....they are training with high intensity (doing all their specific hard workouts) ? Thanks |
| MAYEROFF |
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[quote]Friday the 13th wrote: Jason, don't jump in with assumptions, if you don't know for sure what you are talking about. I mean, maybe you are correct, but if you didn't talk to these guys specifically, didn't train with them, or stalk them, don't tell us what their mileage is for sure. Renato said, 130-150km, the other guy said ~160km, and they seem to have a lot more direct contact with Kibet/Kwambi than you, right? Let's let Rentao chime in: RENATO! counting even warm-ups and jogs, what is their total km's or miles per week....WHEN.....they are training with high intensity (doing all their specific hard workouts) ? Thanks[/quote Dude!!! I am just adding up the numbers and using a good dose of "common running sense." These guys are sometimes doing 2 quality sessions a day, which is not uncommon in the world of high level running. |
| hjhgfd |
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If Renato says they run 130-140km a week, then what´s the debate? |
| okey |
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-20K average 60-63 mins depending on terrain. -Recovery runs only after the interval sessions. -The long run starts slowly then gets faster. |