juamarti
Renato Canova: Why Salvatore Antibo and Francesco Panetta did not become in great marathoners? 1/17/2009 9:41AM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
A few weeks ago I talked to Armando Quintanilla (Mexican Olimpian in 10,000m)and he told me that they used to call Antibo 'the white Kenyan' for his track tactics (surging - slowing). I wonder why he and Panetta were not a great marathoners?
Another Douchebag Lawyer
RE: Renato Canova: Why Salvatore Antibo and Francesco Panetta did not become in great marathoners? 1/17/2009 9:48AM - in reply to juamarti Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I can't speak about Panetta, but Antibo wouldn't be a good marathoner because he ran like an idiot.

If there's one thing that the marathon does, it's that it rewards planning and patience - two things that were apparently out the window when Antibo stepped on the track.

Antibo was entertaining, sure, but completely moronic. I remember seeing the '91 worlds 10k and watching him run like a fool.

Then it was later revealed that some of his behavior on the track was a form a siezures (I kid you not.) I doubt that would go over well in a marathon.
Renato Canova
Coach
RE: Renato Canova: Why Salvatore Antibo and Francesco Panetta did not become in great marathoners? 1/17/2009 10:24AM - in reply to Another Douchebag Lawyer Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
The main difference between Antibo and Panetta was that Antibo never was interested in running Marathon, because he had a very good coach for 10,000m (Gaspare Polizzi) that didn't like road races, in Italy at that time we had Gelindo Bordin Olympic Champion in Marathon, and really he was,in 1990, the no. 1 in the World in 10,000. He could be the first man breaking the barrier of 27' (before my friend and collaboator Yobes Ondieki), in 1990, if was less disturbed, mentally, by the presence of Hammou Boutayeb in the same race, that he won easy in 27'21". One of the worst Antibo was able to run in 27'16" in 1989. During the preparation for that race, we were in Sestriere (2050m), and Antibo and Polizzi arrived 2 days before me. When I arrived, I almost had an accident with a crazy Polizzi, driving his car very fast, with Antibo on the rear seats, having an ankle big as a melon after a very bad sprain. Polizzi was in Antibo's room for 10 days, using ice for a lot of hours every day, before Antibo could run again. When he started running, was not able to run in any turn, and continued running in a furlong of 600m on tarmac, stopping at the end for turning walking, and after starting again. In this way he went running 2 hr. After 10 days in the room, and 10 days with only long run straight, Antibo came back to Sicily, and next week ran the Regional Phase of Italian Club Championships as a test for Helsinki. During the first day, he told to all the runners that he wanted to test himself, running one lap in 64" and one lap in 1'15",so nobody had to follow him : he won in 29'07". The next day he went for 5000 even pace, running 13'37". After 4 days, in Helsinki, destroyed the National Record in 27'16".
But the Antibo 1990 was very much better.
After winning both 10000 (with the first lap in 59" and a "solo" race controlling the other runners 200m behind) in 27'39" and 5000 in 13'22" in European Ch., he had in Sardegna a car accident : his car rolled out of the road, stopping against a tree, and he had a strong impact between his head and the top of the car. This accident provoked the problem that, after one year, started to limit his activity, so never could go to Marathon, how was his wish before the accident.
About Panetta, he really wanted to move to marathon already in 1993, but his preparation was wrong. He went for a lot of km not fast, and this increase in mileage became a good base for his main qualities, but nothing to do with the specificism for a marathon. The result was that he improved, after 6 years, his PB of 5000 in Zurich, moving from 13'15" to 13'06", but was not able to finish the marathon. I remember that, before Rotterdam 1993, speaking with Gianni Demadonna (his manager and friend), I gave Gianni an envelop with a paper where i wrote the km that Panetta could run. I wrote "29", Panetta stopped at 27.
At the end of his career,Panetta wanted absolutely to finish a marathon, and this happened in Torino, where he ran 2:15. His main problem was that he never had the patience to change his physiology, thinking of marathon as an extension of 10,000m.
juamarti
RE: Renato Canova: Why Salvatore Antibo and Francesco Panetta did not become in great marathoners? 1/17/2009 1:07PM - in reply to Renato Canova Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Thanks Renato...
gonzo
RE: Renato Canova: Why Salvatore Antibo and Francesco Panetta did not become in great marathoners? 1/17/2009 1:29PM - in reply to Renato Canova Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
So, to extrapolate, one could run a very credible 10K off of running 2 hours of 600-meter repeats?

Wow.
Antonio Cabral
Cabral's bio
RE: Renato Canova: Why Salvatore Antibo and Francesco Panetta did not become in great marathoners? 1/17/2009 1:52PM - in reply to Renato Canova Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Hello Renato
Just one my own comment about what could been the first non-african born to run 10k in sub 27:00.
As you know we are in 2009 and no one non-african did it yet.
In my opinion and for what iīve seen and relate to the body mechanic or organic quality it could be the Fernando Mamede of the 83-84 seasons. Without deny the chance of Salvatori to do it 83-84 it was been before the Salvatori Antibo top period. Simply Mamede had the physical talent but not the mind attitude and the determination that Salvatori it seems to had.
I want just remember some facts about Mamede: One is that Mamede did 27:30 in a weekend track solo run out of the peak season period and that Mamede was the first runner in the world to run 10 times faster than 28:00 most of them with no pacers to help him but he did it mostly in international events as are real competitions.
As you tell us some facts about the quite unique training and the preparation of Salvatori Antibo let me tell you something about Mamede. In several workouts mamede did right before the 84 Mamede 27:13 and Lopes 27:17 10000m same run that both did break the earlier Henry Rono 10000m world record. He did several very fast workouts andamong others Mamede did several 3X3000m workout sessions in sub 8:00 average. He did repeat that same track workout level of performance right before the 84 Los Angeles Olympics. He did all this specific workouts all alone and the coach did ask to close the doors of the stadium and only a few did access to the track of the stadium the during he did it, not to trouble him and get him out of the pressure that are the public and spectators to watch it. I did I watch him doing so few times, workouts like 3000m intervals for sub 8:00.
In one occasion before the 84 LA Olympicshe did one session of 10000m test in 27:34 all alone in +30-32 temperature and he finished with no major signs of tiredness. It was like one normal workout for him.

As we know he did give up in the 10000m 84 Olympics final at a slow start pace near the 3000m split mark falling in tears. He didnīt sleep a single minute the 2 days before that final so nervous and anxious he was. He wasnīt able to resist to that high pressure of being the favourite.

Alberto Cova did win that one with 27:47 and 2nd and 3rd did finish slow than 28:00 in a tactical run that we expect that Mamede could impose his strong terminal finish as he used to.

1. COVA Alberto ITA 27:47.54
2.MCLEOD Michael James GBR 28:06.22
3.MUSYOKI Michael KEN 28:06.46
4.ANTIBO Salvatore ITA 28:06.50
5.HERLE Christoph GER 28:08.21
6.BITOK Sosthenes KEN 28:09.01
7.KANAI Yutaka JPN 28:27.06
8.JONES Steven Henry GBR 28:28.08
9.TREACY John IRL 28:28.68
10.MUSA JOUDA Ahmed SUD 28:29.43
11.NCUBE Zephaniah ZIM 28:31.61
12.ROSE Nicholas H. GBR 28:31.73
13.BARIE Zakariah TAN 28:32.28
14.NZAU Joseph KEN 28:32.57
15.PORTER Patrick Ralph USA 28:34.59
16.SHINTAKU Masanori JPN 28:55.54
MAMEDE PACHECO Fernando E. POR DNF
VAINIO Martti O. FIN disqualified by doping .(27:51.10)

Great deception for Mamede. One unique lost opportunity.
During the warmup and only a few minutes before the gun start of that final Mamede did confess to his coach that he didnīt sleep for the 2 last days. The coach did understood right away that he willnīt be able to run at his best. But in one last attempt to save the problem he said to him “Mamede. Just think you arenīt in the Olympic Stadium and think that you arenīt run the Olympic final but instead imagine you are run one your normal workout in the close stadium to the public and spectators as you did. But it was impossible for him to be mind absent he was in the Olympics.
Right after to give up of that final no one of the Portuguese team or Portuguese federation or coach knew about Mamede for 2 days. He disappeared. 2 days later he appears to the coach. Only after the games he did confess that he did vagabond in the streets and avenues of LA without sleep or eat or drink. The coach said “Mamede, take a shower and eat and drink something and in 3 hours letīs do one workout in the training and warmup track of the Olympic stadium. 20X400m. What he did on that occasion ? All in sub 60sec. Last ones in 56sec. Tired and without sleep ! What a talent but what a weak mind !
Other coaches that were present and that identify him and that knew who he was they taught that he was crazy. He did give up in the final and was doing such fast workout.

In 86 – out of his best shape seasons, with no special marathon preparation, only with 10k type of training - he was invited to run the Fukuoka marathon. He did give up at 10miles. But 4 weeks before he decides that he would need a long run attempt just to know how he feels. Then he did a 35k road solo test in a not flat course. He did finish faster than the 35k split of 2:07:12 Lopes WR at that time. I couldnīt believe if I wasnīt present and did follow him by car.
Atanvarno
RE: Renato Canova: Why Salvatore Antibo and Francesco Panetta did not become in great marathoners? 1/17/2009 2:31PM - in reply to Antonio Cabral Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Great stuff, thank you Antonio and Renato
Lindgren Runner
RE: Renato Canova: Why Salvatore Antibo and Francesco Panetta did not become in great marathoners? 1/17/2009 3:14PM - in reply to Atanvarno Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
wow I didn't know Renato still posted here.
juamarti
RE: Renato Canova: Why Salvatore Antibo and Francesco Panetta did not become in great marathoners? 1/17/2009 4:09PM - in reply to Lindgren Runner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
When Mamede broke the 10,000m WR in '84 (I still have the newspaper clip of the note) I thought that the body of mamede plus the mind and determination of Lopes would be something like 26:30 of that era (Beamonesque!!).

What a great runners those portuguese were (Lopes, Mamede, Leitao, Canario) led by Antonio Munis Parreira.
hillllll
RE: Renato Canova: Why Salvatore Antibo and Francesco Panetta did not become in great marathoners? 1/17/2009 4:25PM - in reply to juamarti Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
thanks guys, i can read your posts all day long.
nemeth
RE: Renato Canova: Why Salvatore Antibo and Francesco Panetta did not become in great marathoners? 1/17/2009 5:37PM - in reply to Renato Canova Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
MR Renato

Do you know anything about K.Szabo Gabor from Hungary?I heard when Antibo was really good, he was training with him in a training camp and I heard he was beating Antibo in trainings?I always want to ask this because people in Hungary saying that is true.Do you know anything about K Szabo G and his stories?

Thank You!
Antonio Cabral
Cabral's bio
RE: Renato Canova: Why Salvatore Antibo and Francesco Panetta did not become in great marathoners? 1/17/2009 5:43PM - in reply to juamarti Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Add Antonio Pinto to that portuguese package despite he is from the next generation ahead of Lopes and Mamede or Leitao.
I donīt know to what extend i agree with you about Lopes. When Lopes did 27:17 in the new Mamede 27:13 WR Lopes did it near his 100% capacity. Lopes was very strong in mentality but would never been able to run sub 27:00 but Mamede he would. With the body of Mamede and the mechanic and the mind atitude of Lopes such runner would be able to face Bekele or Gebre with slight different training that they did in the 80s - with some altitude they never did - and some more professionalism.
By the way itīs Mario Moniz Pereira and not Antonio.
hillllll
RE: Renato Canova: Why Salvatore Antibo and Francesco Panetta did not become in great marathoners? 1/18/2009 8:09AM - in reply to Antonio Cabral Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Renato and Antonio

How do you coach athletes similar to Mamede, who are talented and can prepare well but aren't good mentally. they can't handle the big race pressure?