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serious help please
Alcoholics Anonymous vs. Rational Recovery 10/28/2008 9:54AM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I am writing to see if anyone has any experience with Rational Recovery. I need to find an alcohol treatment program, but do not like the religious component of Alcoholics Anonymous. I have heard that Rational Recovery works well for people who are not religious (or cannot submit "to a higher power."). I understand that this is a running site, but if anyone has any serious advice/experience it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
You want the truth son ?
RE: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. Rational Recovery 10/28/2008 10:08AM - in reply to serious help please Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I know three people like you who went Rational Recovery who are now dead. They were not good friends just people I knew from meetings. I also know plenty of atheist and agnostics who are successful in AA. A higher power simply means there is a power greater then yourself. Like a group working on a project is better then a single person working on a project. Lastly AA is not a religious program and you know that. In closing go to RR and try drinking again, plenty try and pay the price. Just remember this, if you don't want to get sober you won't.
Intergalactic
RE: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. Rational Recovery 10/28/2008 10:22AM - in reply to serious help please Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I just learned what little I know about Rational Recovery by checking out their website. It seems like a psychological approach that could definitely work for some but not for all. I do have a fair amount of experience with AA, although I'm not going to meetings right now. I think any "method" of recovery has to be taken with a grain of salt. There is a lot of good stuff about AA. I really like the spiritual component, and it's very helpful to have a place where you can share your feelings with people who will identify with you, and also where you can see examples of success in sobriety. On the other hand, I don't believe that there is any magical cure. In the end, it comes down to your ability to understand what you want out of life, to be honest with yourself, and to stay true to yourself. Despite what AA will have you believe, plenty of people have quit drinking with no "program" whatsoever. AA is a wonderful thing that helps a lot of people, but it's just a tool. The only real key to sobriety in my experience is getting in touch with yourself and what you want out of life. If you can do that, anything is possible. If you can't, then all of the tools in the world won't save you from yourself.
serious help please
RE: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. Rational Recovery 10/28/2008 10:24AM - in reply to You want the truth son ? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I did AA for 9 months. And it was ok, but I really couldn't get past all the higher power stuff. I do know that AA can work for some agnostic and atheist people. But it did not work for me. I actually am seeing a therapist and I would like to find help, but I do think that different models can work for different people. Can you be specific about Rational Recovery? i've heard good things. What is the problem? Also, I want to point out that the tone of your message "you want the truth son" is very confrontational and unhelpful and reminds me of all the stuff I didn't like about AA. And, by the way, I'm 66, probably not young enough to be your son.
Intergalactic
RE: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. Rational Recovery 10/28/2008 10:33AM - in reply to serious help please Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
The thing with Rational Recovery is it puts the burden of sobriety completely on you and your "rational" mind. I personally don't believe that humans are particularly rational. It seems as though RR wants to say that all you have to do is truly decide for the rest of your life that you don't want to drink/drug again, and then detach from every thought that says otherwise. Well DUH! If it were that easy, everyone would be getting sober. The point is that you will want to be sober one day and then a few hours or weeks or months later, you either won't give enough of a shit to stay sober or you will start thinking that you can drink/drug again in moderation. Psychology, reason, and thought control are all important aspects of making and sticking to any decision we make, whether it's to get sober or to finish a term paper or anything else, but AA offers a lot more than just that.

Why do you have such a problem with the higher power part of AA? Were you sober for those 9 months? And, if so, then how can you say AA didn't work for you? Keep in mind that the ONLY requirement for membership in AA is the desire to stop drinking. You can call "bull****" on every single other aspect of the program, but as long as you are staying sober with meetings, then there's nothing wrong with going.
You want the truth son ?
RE: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. Rational Recovery 10/28/2008 11:08AM - in reply to serious help please Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
You are not used to someone talking to you honestly. Many drunks are like that, I was too. Huge egos with an inferiority complex. Your household probably lives by your rules and you expect others to do the same. In closing it didn't work because you don't want it to work, you just said you know atheist and agnostics who it worked for.
Cleveland in the House
RE: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. Rational Recovery 10/28/2008 11:19AM - in reply to serious help please Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Look you SOB , you admitted you are a drunk ! and now you don't like the option that kept your sorry ass sober ? if you were right next to me Id put a foot up your ass so quick you wouldn't know what hit you. Work the 12 steps then come back and tell me you don't like the program.
Bat Girl
RE: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. Rational Recovery 10/28/2008 11:38AM - in reply to You want the truth son ? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

You want the truth son ? wrote:

You are not used to someone talking to you honestly. Many drunks are like that, I was too. Huge egos with an inferiority complex.


So true!
I heard through the grapevine
RE: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. Rational Recovery 10/28/2008 11:45AM - in reply to You want the truth son ? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I agree -- "not able to submit to a higher power" most likely has little to do with religion or atheism, and more likely has to do with "unable to submit" in general.
alky
RE: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. Rational Recovery 10/28/2008 12:56PM - in reply to I heard through the grapevine Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
keep searching for different AA group meetings. Most I have been to do not play up the religion aspect. In fact your higher power can be the great oak tree, the sun, or moon. Basically you are just saying that you are out of control!
Laker Jack
RE: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. Rational Recovery 10/28/2008 1:09PM - in reply to serious help please Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

serious help please wrote:

I did AA for 9 months. And it was ok, but I really couldn't get past all the higher power stuff. I do know that AA can work for some agnostic and atheist people. But it did not work for me. I actually am seeing a therapist and I would like to find help, but I do think that different models can work for different people. Can you be specific about Rational Recovery? i've heard good things. What is the problem? Also, I want to point out that the tone of your message "you want the truth son" is very confrontational and unhelpful and reminds me of all the stuff I didn't like about AA. And, by the way, I'm 66, probably not young enough to be your son.


Whether or not you want someone to tell you what you don't want to hear, until you decide to accept the truth, you don't stand a chance no matter what it is that assists you, if anything, through the recovery process aka the rest of your life.

I'm in recovery since 1985, have seen all kinds of cases, been to AA and while I didn't find it the best place for me on a consistent basis, it has some usefulness.
livin in the south
RE: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. Rational Recovery 10/28/2008 1:10PM - in reply to alky Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I checked on AA for my mother and every single scheduled meeting was at a church (town of 80,000). If you have someone that hates the "god-fearing" people, having AA at a church is a big turn off.

I wish they could detach from the churches. Keep the submitting to a higher power, as I believe it's necessary for most, but not all.
Cleveland in the House
RE: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. Rational Recovery 10/28/2008 1:46PM - in reply to livin in the south Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Look you little bastard, I am no church goer but churches charge next to nothing to use their halls and classrooms, if you know of any other group that charges as little as churches do then start a meeting. If I was next to you Id stick my foot so far up your ass it would come out of your mouth. Part of getting sober is being around people of all kinds, Mommy is just going to have to accept the world doesn't revolve around her. Get your ass to a Alanon meeting tonight, you understand me boy ?
serious help please
RE: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. Rational Recovery 10/28/2008 1:47PM - in reply to livin in the south Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Thank you everyone for your responses. I want to be clear about a few things:
#1 I understand I have a serious problem and cannot drink. #2: I understand that I cannot do this by myself and need help from some institution, organization, counselor, or combination of the above
#3: I understand that AA has helped many non-religious people.
#4: I have not ruled out AA, but in my objective experience it has not worked well for me. I would try it again, as a friend told me that some AA groups have subcommunities (i.e. just men, just Christians, etc.) and its possible one might fit me better
#5: I am still interested in hearing from anyone who has gone to Rational Recovery of some organization other than AA where they have had success. Surely AA cannot be the only organization that has helped people.
#6: I am a little confused by the aggressive "hey, dude, wake the hell up punk" attitude. As I mentioned previously, I do not find this kind of tough guy confrontation helpful (which, I will point out is different from confronting in a direct manner). I get the feeling that those of you who write this way are either reformed alcoholics or loved ones of alcoholics that seem to think that every alcoholic is exactly the same and just needs to be treated harshly. Maybe you're right, but I honestly have to say I do not find it at all helpful.
Finally, again, thank you to everyone who has responded. I know its kind of weird to post personal stuff in a running community, but its helpful to get some perspectives from people (runners) who are generally pretty sane.
Mormon dude in the house
RE: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. Rational Recovery 10/28/2008 2:08PM - in reply to serious help please Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I got help through the Mormon church, for some reason I don't think you'd be interested in their program.

I also go to AA, find a intergroup office in your area and see if they have a mens group. You are not unique but you cannot expect other people to tell you want you want to hear in terms of how to stay sober. Go to enough meetings and you will hear your story. I can promise you that.

Oh yeah , if you hear someone who you think sounds good and they have been sober for a good period ask them for help, tell them you are struggling and you will find help. You cannot sit in the back of the room looking like a grump. Raise your hand and say what you said here today, nobody is going to throw you out, you will find help. Good luck.
OldXCguy
RE: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. Rational Recovery 10/28/2008 2:59PM - in reply to serious help please Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Dude, I admire your candor, posting that on this wild free for all of a message board. Good luck to you.
BeerPong
RE: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. Rational Recovery 10/28/2008 3:43PM - in reply to OldXCguy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I saw the funniest shirt the other day....On one side...It said, Alcoholics Anonymous is for Quitters. On the other side, it sad Drink till she's CUTE!
recovered
RE: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. Rational Recovery 10/28/2008 6:26PM - in reply to BeerPong Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Never heard of RR. I've been sober about 2 1/2 yrs. I was very uncomfortable with the "God" aspect of AA, but I was able to get past it. As the previous poster said it isn't religious. It is admitting that you are powerless over alchohol. The program is spiritual in nature. A power greater than yourself is accepting that you are not in charge. Many people, including myself, use the word God almost as a default.
Two suggestions: Get a copy of the Big Book and start reading it. I was in and out of AA before I actually read it. For me it opened my eyes, it explains the disease, the phenomenon of craving, and how to get sober. To me the meetings are a small part of the program. My other suggestion is to get a book called The Spirituality of Imperfection. This book helped to clarify the difference between religion and spirituality.
G.O.D.
RE: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. Rational Recovery 10/28/2008 7:09PM - in reply to recovered Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I know a lady whose higher power was a Group of Dolphins-GOD.

Don't let the higher power stuff turn you off.

Stick with it. What you're doing is a great thing!
ron L. hobbit
RE: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. Rational Recovery 10/28/2008 7:56PM - in reply to G.O.D. Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Try Narconon. I hear that's a great group not affiliated with anything.
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