Falk Cierpinski, son of Waldemer Cierpinski, 2:13 in Berlin

possessor of secrets wrote:

I saw the name Cierpinski in the Berlin results and wondered if he was related to Waldemar Cierpinski of Olympic marathoning fame. Did a quick google search and found that, indeed, Falk is Waldemar's son. Falk was 9th today, running 2:13. Can anyone name a better father / son marathoning duo?

who cares?

Yeah, the IAAF continues to list as world recordholders proven drug cheaters like Marita Koch (and yes, the proof is very much documented) but takes away gold medals of relay runners guilty of no wrong-doing at all. Nice.

Shorter has made it public? Have you seen it? I can't find anything to that effect. Do you know where it is?

Why should you or I be privy to it? He made it public when he tried to get the IOC to open the case. He hasn't given it up to the media because he knows that if the IOC won't budge then nothing else matters.

I did a little google and found some documentation on

Shorter and the Germany doping machine.

The WikeRun article on Ciepinski:

http://wikirun.com/Waldemar_Cierpinski

mentions the allegations by Shorter with a reference to this NY Times article:

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/10/25/sports/olympics-us-seeks-redress-for-1976-doping-in-olympics.html?sec=health&pagewanted=1

There might be more info out there but I was able to come with that in about 2 minutes.

get really real wrote:

documents were found after the fall of the wall, by a German doctor, documenting that Cierpinksi used steroids, and even named the type of steroids.

Yeah, Frank Shorter, must be German doctor who supposedly "found" documents, at least according to Frank. He's also the last person who saw Pre.

HRE wrote:

But none of this suggests that Frank ever took PEDs and its as unfair of you to make such an insinuation toward him as it is for others to make that sort of claim about Cierpinski.

Frank went to medical school. Why did he go to medical school? Also his dad was a physician. In one of his books he mentioned several times about red lines running down his legs, probably from his experiments. Check it out. Now he's all of a sudden an expert on German physicians.

Reliant Aries wrote:

Why should you or I be privy to it? He made it public when he tried to get the IOC to open the case. He hasn't given it up to the media because he knows that if the IOC won't budge then nothing else matters.

If I wanted people to believe a claim like that I'd put it somewhere the public could see it. If I kept claiming it existed but never actually showed I wouldn't be surprised if people questioned the claim. So the answer is that you haven't actually seen any verifiable evidence against Cierpinski either?

J.R. wrote:

Frank went to medical school. Why did he go to medical school? Also his dad was a physician. In one of his books he mentioned several times about red lines running down his legs, probably from his experiments. Check it out. Now he's all of a sudden an expert on German physicians.

Is this a troll? I don't think Shorter would be talking about his doping experiments in a book. Not to mention your bizarre comment about him going to medical school. I guess you think Roger Bannister was a doper, too?

HRE wrote:

Reliant Aries wrote:

Why should you or I be privy to it? He made it public when he tried to get the IOC to open the case. He hasn't given it up to the media because he knows that if the IOC won't budge then nothing else matters.

If I wanted people to believe a claim like that I'd put it somewhere the public could see it. If I kept claiming it existed but never actually showed I wouldn't be surprised if people questioned the claim. So the answer is that you haven't actually seen any verifiable evidence against Cierpinski either?

Um, as the founding head of USADA he has credibility enough for me, but then I don't have a problem with Shorter or what he's said. He probably doesn't care what the general public thinks, since they don't serve on the IOC and can't do anything about Cierpinski, Shorter has never struck me as the martyr-in-the-court-of-public-opinion type.

that guy from Germany wrote:

from arrs.net:

Fastest families - The fastest brothers are Eric (2:07:43) and Boaz (2:08:44.9) Kimaiyo with a combined time of 4:16:27.9.

I imagine ARRS doesn't consider Boston a legit course, but we do also have Mbarak (2:08:10, Seoul) and Ibrahim (2:08:14, Boston) Hussein (4:16:24 total).

Reliant Aries wrote:

Shorter has never struck me as the martyr-in-the-court-of-public-opinion type.

I have a lot of respect and admiration for Shorter. But if he doesn't care what the general public thinks why even mention that he has evidence that Cierpinski was on something illegal? He doesn't owe anyone an explanation but until I see some hard evidence that an athlete cheated I'm going to be skeptical about claims that he did, though that's not the same as saying I believe the athlete was clean.

These sorts of discussions usually end up being about what athletes we like and which we don't with the ones in the second category getting the short end of the accusations.

Cierpinski was from an "enemy" country and not popular here so a lot of people were suspicious of him. Frank was much moer popular here but there are plenty of people who don't like him and some of those will write stupid things like "He went to med school so he must have doped."

I don't think either man deserves these sorts of comments.

Probably because a reporter asked him.