| Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 | 66 | |
| OldSub4 |
| ||
bump[/quote] This thread has definately become quite long, but the answers to your question are all in this. My personal philosophy and experience is that the runner should be working 85% of the time on strength, but not let his CP systems and anaerobic systems atrophy, so while not too much speed work, at least some once per week (more of a half session on an off day of 3-4 200s). The general schedule of a tuesday interval 3-5k type workout (5*800) cutting down times, thursday tempo LT threshold work with a few quick short intervals at the end, and Saturday for some slightly more specific work at closer to mile pacing (something like an 8-6-5-4-3-2-1) progression. Sunday run of 50-60 minutes. The times you would need to guage but if the goal is sub 2, then mile would be around 4:24-4:28 and 5k around 16minutes I am guessing for a typical HS runner (I am proably off). You could have the 5*800 be 245 cutting down to 225. Tempos at 545 pace. 2*3*200 in 32-30-28. 8-6-5 starting around 70 pace and working down faster than 800m pace by the 300m... Check out the thread for more varied workouts at the various levels.... |
| HSC |
| ||
|
OS4 wrote: "The times you would need to guage but if the goal is sub 2, then mile would be around 4:24-4:28 and 5k around 16minutes I am guessing for a typical HS runner (I am proably off)." OS4 - You are right on. His times last year as a junior were: 4:27 (1600) 15:50 (5k) |
| why |
| ||
|
why would he run the 800 then?? his other times seem much faster, especially the 5k |
| HSC |
| ||
This may not make any sense, but I am trying to think of his future - after high school. |
| markeroon |
| ||
Makes perfect sense to me. It's gonna be tough to be quick over 5km if you can't break two minutes for 800m. |
| HSC |
| ||
|
OS4 Your suggestions look very sound. Also close to what I had planned. Thanks for taking the time to help. |
| fUrCeOsNhN |
| ||
|
Sounds similar to what Jim Spivey did in high school-maximizing 800/mile speed in high school. http://www.tnrunning.com/articles/milner/catching_up_with_spivey.html |
| Voice of Ray-san |
| ||
|
So does that mean only 0.1% of the people actually understand you? The question to which you responded was asking if finishing off 200m repeats with one or two 22 second runs, is appropriate for this time of year, because it might place to much demand on the anaerobic system. Do you claim that it is never possible to over-stimulate the anaerobic system at any time of the year, no matter the runner, his event, and the training phase? Completely and mutually exclusively contrary to the impossibility of anyone ever being "too anaerobic", it would seem to me that the possibility of over-stimulating the "anaerobic system", leading to over-training, always exists every week of the year. Can you help me see what's wrong with my thinking? Or is my statement correct, and maybe I'm just using the wrong words?
|
| wellnow |
| ||
|
There would certainly be problems arising if a runner did too many speed sessions at the expense of endurance, but why would 22 seconds for 200m be too fast for Seb Coe? If there was sufficient time for him to convert that kind of speed endurance into 45-46 second pace for 400 then he migh get himself into 1.41 shape for the summer. |
| wellnow |
| ||
Blood ph and muscle ph are very different. The blood must remain slightly alkaline at all times, but muscle ph can fall to 6.2-6.4 |
| wellnow |
| ||
Well, there's only one thing to do to find out for sure: get some mitochondria in a controlled environment and then introduce them to low-pH conditions and see what happens. Oh... wait... someone already did that. Nevermind![/quote] ******************************************************** I do it regularly, I run hard up hills. |
| Some Canadian |
| ||
Well, there's only one thing to do to find out for sure: get some mitochondria in a controlled environment and then introduce them to low-pH conditions and see what happens. Oh... wait... someone already did that. Nevermind![/quote] ******************************************************** I do it regularly, I run hard up hills.[/quote] ******************************************************** ... (slaps forehead in exasperation) |
| Voice of Ray-san |
| ||
Because his target was 27 seconds? |
| wellnow |
| ||
|
I think you are missing the point, 200's is not too fast for a runner like Coe the first 200m of a 1.41 800 are very fast, in Kipketer's 1.41.1 he went through in about 23.5 Maybe you are too hung up on Lydiard dogma. |
| wellnow |
| ||
|
Why are you slapping your head in exasperation? Running fast causes muscle cell damage, that does not mean that low ph is the major cause, that is not a proven hypothesis. Explain why running downhill without low ph causes more damage than running uphill with low ph? Also, why is heat production hardly ever mentioned in the literature concerning muscle fatigue? Think logically, there are many silly fizzyology myths out there. |
| lucas |
| ||
|
Ask Will Jurkowski....he knows a lot about talking the talk of going sub 1:50 but never actually doing it. In his mind he has already run 1:46 and made the olympic team. |
| wellnow |
| ||
Anthony, it's very simple. The specificity of training has much more to do with neuro-muscular co-ordination than with aerobic/anaerobic capacities. These capacities don't change substantially during much of the athletes training once they have a decent level of basic fitness. What changes is the neural adaption, so you may be able to run 200's much faster after a few weeks of speed work, but thea adaption is mostly neural. If you have been doing hill work then you already have the enzymes to cope with higher H+ concentrations etc. Glycolysis from blood glucose and glycogenolysis are NOT the same pathway. There are different H+ and ATP yields. With glycogenolysis there is a yield of one extra ATP and one less H+ So that mean there is six times as much anaerobic ATP derived from glycogen v glucose and a much lower acidity. Consider this in relation to how long we should wait after our last meal before we train hard or race, it is very significant. |
| atletabanana |
| ||
|
OS4, I saw in Nick Symmonds' blog that he opens the outdoor season with a 1500m phase before going on to 800s. Looks like it was april/may. Did you do this under Gagliano too? I was wondering if he's just running off the strength phase or if there is actual specific sharpening to prepare for these 1500s. |
| mistake lake |
| ||
|
OS4 or anyone... All of my middle distance and distance runners will be coming straight from basketball and will have just a 12 week season. In the past, I have approached training in a couple of ways after their season is over- one being working solely on endurance (long runs, easy runs, some mild LT work) and speed work of the 30-60m variety (3-6x 30-60m) for the first 4 weeks. The first few meets, they would run a variety of races from the 200-3200m, depending on the kid. A lot of success by the end of the year from this. Last season, we started training all "systems" simutaneously and gradually progressed. It was hit or miss last season and we never ran as well as I thought we would have. Not nearly as well as the year before. Some kids didn't even PR. The weather was awful, however. We never had a "nice" meet and were only able to get on our gravel track for 2 workouts all year. So maybe our race results were skewed a little. My question, though- what are some ideas on how to approach training with a group like this; coming straight from basketball? |
| U.N.O. |
| ||
If you mean by all systems that you included "anaerobic training" from the start, that was a mistake. First approach was better because you had more pure endurance work without inerrupting that with "anaerobic training". If they have such a short season then they should continue this base regime (endurance and alactic top speed) through competitions, just include more rhythm (race pace) strides in. They do not need really hard sessions with races because of not so good base background. Only some progressive VO2max intervals before and in racing season depending of the race schedule. |
| Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 | 66 | |