| Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 | 66 | |
| fUrCeOsNhN |
| ||
|
Wow great clip thanks. A great runner. Powerful yet unimpeded hip extension over a large range of motion the name of the game. There is a picture in lore of running of elliot in midstride and it looks like he is nearly doing the splits. It is impossible to run fast without it. Funny you should mention Ovett, it is his birthday today, as well as another Elliott (Peter). In a group of runners running at the same exact pace it is generally very easy to pick out the best couple athletes due to their more balanced and more "open" strides, as well as other factors, such as a lack of overstriding, looking more relaxed and maybe having a lower arm carriage. |
| flow |
| ||
|
the above post is the general approach and specific approaches depend on the individual. Whilst individuals do fall into categories always the details of difference are idiosyncratic. Hence the approach has a necessity of being similarly idiosyncratic. However, there are standard exercises i have come to use through trying every option that has become available to my experience. Some of these are possibly in order of importance but also not from time to time and individual to individual. You can try these in order as the first is more an awareness and mobilising exercise which also tunes your breathing into your moving. 1. Soma Lumbar rolling (from the German Soma (or Breathing) series) -Lie on your back. have the legs raised and knees at 90 degrees or a little less. The feet are flat on the floor. The knees are apart far enough to allow your adductors to relax and shut off. -Begin by lifting the lumbar spine away from the ground as far as possible without lifting the hips of upper back. After reaching full height with a very gentle stretch proceed to lower the lumbar spine to the ground and then apply slight pressure into the ground with it. - Simulatenous to this is the breathing pattern and it's very simple.During the lifting phase breath in. During the lowering and pressing phase breath out. Breath in through the nose and out through the mouth. Attempt to draw the breath from the lower abdominal section and no higher than that. Ideally the breath draws in and releases from the CofG. When you are asleep and thus at your most relaxed it will draw and release from this point anyway. - The word release is very important. Try not to push the breath out. As paradoxical as trying not to try may be, initially trying not to push may be necessary. Once into the exercise the only trying is the slight attempt to draw the breath from down there and the release should become a true release ie no trying necessary. -The final important point i can remember at the moment is is that the breath and the movement should begin and end at the exact same time. So start lifting as you start drawing and finish the draw as you finish the lift. Don't hold at the top of the lift, simply start the lowering process and simulataneously allow the release to begin as you begin to lower. Once the movement and the breathing become synchronised another effect may become apparent, especially to those who are aware of the feeling of their own mind. - continue for 20 repeptitions. I have fallen into the rhythm and probably continued for over 50 at times. 20 is enough though. 2.Supine (on the back) leg raisings and lowerings. -Lie flat with he the legs outstretched and the body outstretched. Tilt the hips into the posterior tilt position. Attempt to flatten the lumbar spine to the ground. Then keeping the same slight pressure into the ground with the lumbar spine raise first one leg and then the other to a position that is vertical. There should be a 90 degree angle at the hips here. If this is difficult it may require an increase in hamstring flexibility. Most runners have no problem reaching 90 degrees though. - Then lower one leg in the straight position towards the ground. You do not need to get all the way to the ground especially if first trying this exercise. ONce you have felt the strain enter your abdominal/lumbar spine area re-raise that leg to the vertical position. Then begin the same process with the other leg - there is a very important point to be made here. The lumbar spine needs to maintain its position as you move your leg. The slight pressure into the ground should be maintained at all times, not allowed to decrease and not allowed to increase.This is where you will need to consciously stabilise this area of your body whilst the movement of the leg is occurring. - now the reason i said don't go all the way to the ground could be apparent by now. For to continue too far to the ground may well mean that the lumbar spine begins to lift away from the ground.Simply lower the leg until you cannot control the stability and the slight pressure into the ground anymore. Stop just before you lose this control/pressure and raise the leg back to the starting position. - Continue until the controlled stability cannot be maintained anymore.This indicates fatigue of the muscles you are trying to strengthen has reached its exercisable limit for now. - you can utilise the saem breathing pattern as for the soma exercise above if you wish. In fact i recommend it. If this helps and once it has been tried with serious intent i would be happy to outline a few more exercises. Hope it is helpful, it has been outstanding for me and the athletes i coach. PS disclaimer - you may well experience a relaxation of the mind. Additionally you may experience mind altering effects if the breathing becomes well synchronised. Enjoy! |
| flow |
| ||
|
cheers ... if you yourself have any good stuff on MD please put it up ... i'm always looking for new and interesting things to look at and read. |
| Am I doing this right |
| ||
|
That was a great clip of Elliot. I think I'm finally understanding what you are getting at. I was trying to keep my hips locked forward originally, and that is probably why I got so much soreness and stiffness. I wasn't letting my hips tilt back to the anterior position in the push off. I will try working on on this. Watching the Elliot clip helped a lot. |
| fUrCeOsNhN |
| ||
|
Ok just tried those...not sure if they helped anything but at least it felt good! Any other exercises? (Particularly for an athlete with tight hip flexors) One exercise I use is the bulgarian split squat. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UEhImfRf7A&feature=related There is an example of it although I use dumbells and try and get the back leg *all* the way back-completely straight. I also go down lower. It stretches out the hip flexors and hits the glutes like nothing else does. A tempo run the day after a set of heavy bulgarian split squats generally is bad for about a mile or so but after that it is generally much faster then normal. (20-30 seconds/mile faster, at the same effort or less effort. The stride just feels more explosive and open, and you can feel the glutes working more) |
| markeroon |
| ||
|
Thanks, flow. Awesome stuff! |
| interested observer |
| ||
|
god you're stupid geoff. |
| fUrCeOsNhN |
| ||
|
Whatever, bulgarian split squats are a useful training tool that has improved my stride immensely. On a more typical letsrun level, suck it. |
| OldSub4 |
| ||
Hey, I have been underground for a while. I now have a Wall Street job which means that my life is hell. I will give a couple of weeks Strength Mon - am 8 pm 4 plus 6*200 might be 30-28-26..sprinter recovery (ie full) Tue - am 4 pm 5*800m, 400 jog recovery...very important that you cut down. start slower, push the recovery, and have the last one start to get FAST. like I said before, a sub 1:50 guy might do 220, 216,212,208,200-204 with a 2min running rest. Wed - am 4 pm 8 +drills Thur am 4 pm tempo 4 miles...getting faster Fri am 4 pm 8 plus drills/weights Sat am pace work. 1600-1200-800-400, 1200-800-400. 400s would end up under 60....notice this is the 5000m mans sharpening workout, for us it was strength Sunday am 16 Sharpening Monday am 4 pm 8 with 10 good hills Tuesday 600-400-400-5*200 cutting down. 600 might be 122, 400s getting quicker, working on speed endurance wed am 4 pm 8 recovery thursday am 3 mile tempo sub 5 pm 5*200 cut down fast 30-28-26-24-22 fri am 4 pm 8 sat pure speed. 4*400 sub 50. 5 min rest sun 14-16 Peaking mon am 4 pm 8 tue 600 in 116, 5*200 in 24 wed am 4 pm 8 thur 5*300 in 37 fri am 8 sat race sun 12-14 this is for 1:45 guys.....back off for normal 800m times... |
| OldSub4 |
| ||
GREAT QUESTION i always had alot of nervous energy and needed to be shaking out my legs and twitching about. I found that the best thing to do was just as you observed Kipketer....use breathing exercises to take down your heart rate and general anxiety level pre race, and that you had a better "burst" feeling. This is hard/impossible to teach a young runner, but at the elite level I think it is critical. Its OK to be shaking legs, etc but in general you want to be focusing, relaxing, and when the gun goes off pounding full effort for the turn. You may as well use the free bag of fuel.... |
| OldSub4 |
| ||
As forwarded by others, I am saying that I agree if you are doing two harder runs great, but for general AT work you should be training in a comfortable zone, so why not knock out 100 minutes worth once a week all at once? I think you stress your cardio system in a different way once you are out an hour, you get the endophine effect, your breathing becomes more rythmic, your arm carriage smoother.... The other thing I forgot is that the long run is the only way that I can keep the weight off. True 800m men have a decent fast twitch ratio which is prone to bulk, and the long runs were the only thing that finally thinned out the last 5-7 pound above my navel. The one thing I saw at the elite level was just how thin people were up top....small "luggage" to carry fast. I believe that the long run definately affect metabolism more than 2* shorter runs....personal experience, and a willing to be refuted by science on this... |
| OldSub4 |
| ||
I will give you an example of a 6*200m that I think is worth including in the base training...this is straight from a 143 guy... In the fall we would go out on Monday after an 8 miler and do 2 sets of 3*200m with 3-4 min rest....no lactic build up. In the fall we might run 34-32-30....by March it might be 28-26-24... A 1:43 guy is running 34-32-30 in the fall to keep the turnover---just remember to keep the accelerator OFF. a 1:50 guy might only go 36-34-32... |
| OldSub4 |
| ||
Stay with it! This shows you how undeveloped your "striding" form is---this is actually very encouraging. You need to SLOW DOWN and build this form up from scratch.....once you are able to tackle a decent week of mileage using this form you will start seeing it in your workouts and you will be amazed how much better you are able to carry ANY PACE. Your sitting form will still be there, and you can transition to it when you are digging down in a race by just a few weeks of pure speed near competition phase...STAY AT IT.... Only caveat.....REALLY STRETCH at night....you need someone to help you stretch your quads up front to open up the hip joint..... |
| OldSub4 |
| ||
|
didnt want to hit the quote button but this is to back up "flow's" response on hips forward running motion. He is absolutely right....you are going to get some soreness from catching your footstrike more with your quads for a few weeks, but the most important muscles to strengthened are the hip stabilizers....I ran a tempo last Friday and the top parts of my gluts are still screaming from holding form throughout. I am giving serious training one last shot here as I turn 40 so we shall see how it goes. I wasnt terribly durable at 24 I am curious how I will hold up now |
| fUrCeOsNhN |
| ||
|
What was your 200m pr? I can help but wonder based on hitting 22 on several workouts...is that pretty much all out? |
| OldSub4 |
| ||
No sitting on the long run.....striding...train those muscle systems and form to LAST. sitting only on the pure sprinting...good power generation but aweful on your structural system. Can't do 80 mpw sitting without injuring your achilles or IT band in my book. You need to be able to change gears --stride to sit for kicking, and you can see Coe do this every race where he is humming....but 90 percent of your work is in teaching your striding form to be durable |
| OldSub4 |
| ||
Fur great great point and totally agreed |
| OldSub4 |
| ||
Fastest I ever did was 21.7 on a rolling start (ie relay). 22 at the end of a set was totally flat out as you suspect |
| just asking |
| ||
|
I'm just asking but is there anything you would have changed about your training if you had the chance to go back? For example more or less mileage, more or less frequent hills or workouts, more strength or speed based, etc. I know your coach is highly respected but I'd like to get some insight from you yourself instead of just asking you the training you did. |
| flow |
| ||
Hi, sorry to contradict you but the exact wrong thing to do is extend your leg all the way back. Your youtube guy is looking pretty damn good already so i wonder why you felt the need to modify his technique. Of course i don't know you and maybe you are one of those rare individuals who already has the hip flexibility and range to gain a benefit from a fully outstretched rear leg. The way to know how far your leg should be behind you is to see if your lumbar torso is taking the weight (your bodyweight and the few extra kilograms of the dumbells). If the weight is instead being taken by the stretch of your leg and hip muscles then you've missed the purpose of the exercise. If this is the case this explanantion may help. But make sure you ask the question. Is it your posture that is being loaded or is it the stretch tension from your rear leg? 'The way of the Lunge' Like anything else in life start at stage one and find out how to do it in the easiest and simplest way. Once the simplest way is developed and controllable then you can add in the advanced concepts -like extra weight, or a raised rear leg, or an elongated rear leg. Stage one - balanced loading of the legs - Firstly learn to even out the loading between the two legs. This usually involves learning to load them through the knees. The front leg is easy to find, the rear leg less so. - to load the rear leg the rear knee must be bent enough for it to remain free of this stretch tension. Free so it has unihibited motion that is. Any stretch tension blocks this feeling of freedom. - So have the read knee pointing straight down to the ground - gravity is the guide here. Point it in the direction of gravity and let the weight fall in that direction. As you raise and lower your body the rear knee should simply move up and down in the vertical plane. - in order to load this rear knee you might need to adjust one of two things a. shift you bodyweight backwards a little so the front knee is not taking more than its 50% share of your weight. - Once you are truly sitting in the center of the two legs then you should be able to move backwards and forwards with similar ease. You should even be able to lift the front leg off the ground momentarily so that all of your weight is taken in the rear one - and vice versa lift the back foot off the ground so the front one can take all of your weight. This is also a centering activity for this exercise. b. lift the rear heel up and forward so pressure is put into the rear knee. This heel lifting will push that knee into the correct position if a. has also been followed. Stage 2 movement - now that your weight is centered and loading is even through both legs - moving up and down should be both correct as well as involving less external effort. Instead the effort moves more towards the internal. The internal refers to your postural muscles. Additionally you should be able to avoid using the stretch tension to hold you up. -Once the legs are correct then you can subtly reposition the upper body to allow your lumbar torso to take and control the weight of your body. - go slow enough to control this. Feel out your action. Learn to feel your body through this activity. stage 3 extending your capacity -after some time you will become strong enough in your posture and torso to either add extra weight or extra time into the situation. - For anything above the 1500m i wouldn't worry about extra weight for quite a while. Instead Simply go for longer - move towards the length of time it takes to run your chosen distance. If you alternate between which leg is the forward one then over 10 minutes is possible in not much time. - one way to increase the loading is to not stand up between leg direction changes. Instead simply swivel into the opposite direction without moving legs. Spin on the balls of your toes 180 degrees and continue without breaking the rhythm of the repetitions. - another way to increase loading is to find where in the movement you are the strongest - spend a little time without moving in this position before continuing the up and down motion. A small static pause will induce more fatigue into this strongest area and so allow the weaker areas to do more active work and so to catch up in strength. - alternatively you could do short range movements through your weakest part of the range to provide additional stimulus there. It will of course shorten the overall time able to be spent doing the exercise but this is temporary as you can probably imagine. Good luck and most of all 'don't be greedy' ;) |
| Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 | 66 | |