Pages: | 1 | 2 |
meeee
JOHNNY GRAY TRAINING 7/23/2008 2:35PM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
what kind of training did the guy do? i mean he holds the american record which is pretty close to the world record, he had to be doing something right.
Coach D
RE: JOHNNY GRAY TRAINING 7/23/2008 4:28PM - in reply to meeee Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
This is from an article in "Track Technique (now "Track Coach")" years ago:




All distances in yards.

Non-Competitive Season:
M. 6 miles easy, 16 x 220 (3 easy then 1 good speed-repeat); 6 x 150 good speed; 10 x 110 easy.
T. 6 miles easy, 8 x 440 with 220 jog (3 easy then 1 good speed-repeat); 4 x 220 good speed; 10 x 110 easy.
W. 12 miles easy
Th. 6 miles alternating easy and fresh.
F. 8 miles easy.
S. 10 miles alternation 2 easy and 2 fresh.
S. 8 miles easy.

Competitive Season:
M. Mile warm up; 12 x 110 alternating easy and good speed; 8 x 440 (2 good speed, 1 half speed, 1 lap jog-repeat); 8 x 220 alternating good speed and fresh; 2 miles easy, 2 x 660 (53.0 at 440); 10 x 110 easy.
T. 2 miles easy; 12 x 110; 4 x 880 (1:53); 2 x 440 easy; 12 x 150 (1 easy, 1 good speed, 1 easy, 1 half speed-repeat); 10 x 110 easy.
W. 7 miles easy; 1 x 880 (1:49).
Th. 4 miles easy; 12 x 110 alternating easy and good speed; 8 x 220 with 110 jog in between alternating 1 good speed and 1 hard; 6 x 150 alternating easy and fresh; 10 x 110 easy.
F. 6 miles easy.
S. Race.
S. Rest



Like Joe Douglas, Johnny Gray trained in the Igloi style. Never high mileage--60 miles per week or so maximum--and a lot of intervals, but many of the intervals were not balls-to-the-wall hard. Maybe 50 aerobic miles per week in the winter and 20 aerobic miles per week in peak season: Everything else was intervals.
the advocate
RE: JOHNNY GRAY TRAINING 7/23/2008 5:07PM - in reply to Coach D Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I love Gray's use of the word "fresh."

From this point forward I'm describing my tempo runs in this manner.

8 miles, fresh.

Word.
crazykyle26
RE: JOHNNY GRAY TRAINING 7/23/2008 5:16PM - in reply to the advocate Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
he uses words like fresh good speed and good swing for different speeds for training and thats it
the advocate
RE: JOHNNY GRAY TRAINING 7/23/2008 5:32PM - in reply to crazykyle26 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

crazykyle26 wrote:

he uses words like fresh good speed and good swing for different speeds for training and thats it


Hence the reason I'm using "fresh" for tempo runs.
Bttrthansx
RE: JOHNNY GRAY TRAINING 7/23/2008 5:39PM - in reply to Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

1:42.6 wrote:

He also learned all the curse words in the Swahili language. At the starting line of each grand prix meet in Europe he would turn to the Kenyan next to him (as there is always a Kenyan next to you on the starting line of a GP meet)and say the Swahili equivalent of "Your mother is a wildabeest, and your father cried like a little girl during his circumcision ceremony, bringing great shame upon your village." This would cause the Kenyan to be so angry as to go out in 50 point through the 400, giving him a rabbit.




im calling you out on this one. johnny never followed.
Bttrthansx
RE: JOHNNY GRAY TRAINING 7/23/2008 5:42PM - in reply to the advocate Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
and a tempo run wouldn't be johnny's fresh speed.
Coach D
RE: JOHNNY GRAY TRAINING 7/23/2008 6:25PM - in reply to the advocate Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

the advocate wrote:

I love Gray's use of the word "fresh."

From this point forward I'm describing my tempo runs in this manner.

8 miles, fresh.

Word.


Before making comments like that, you need to dig up the old Igloi thread (or do a search on the web) and understand what is being talked about.

Igloi had basically four different intensity levels, named "easy", "fresh", "good", and "hard." Igloi guaged the effort by arm carriage. So, in the training list above, "fresh" means easy-moderate and good means moderate-hard.

Remember that Igloi did most of his training "mileage" in terms of sets of reps of intervals, i.e., 3X20X200 with a short rest between reps and a longer rest between sets. "Fresh" doesn't have much meaning in a tempo run, unless you were using his system for intervals and used the same intensity (arm carriage) for a longer run.

The anaerobic threshold (i.e., tempo run) hadn't even been "discoverred" by exercise science (1965, as I recall) while Igloi was coaching Olympic medalists.
really
RE: JOHNNY GRAY TRAINING 7/23/2008 8:27PM - in reply to Coach D Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I don't think the Kenyan speak shawhilli.
the advocate
RE: JOHNNY GRAY TRAINING 7/23/2008 8:35PM - in reply to Coach D Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Coach D wrote:

"Fresh" doesn't have much meaning in a tempo run, unless you were using his system for intervals and used the same intensity (arm carriage) for a longer run.


You wouldn't call Gray's "fresh" paced workouts in his off-season as tempo/threshold runs? Maybe take a look at what the three guys representing the US in the 800 did in the fall and winter for tempo runs. There's a striking resemblence.

Threshold runs might not have been "discovered," but it sure doesn't mean they weren't being practiced with some regularity by the world's best at the time (down under).
former smtc guy
RE: JOHNNY GRAY TRAINING 7/23/2008 8:40PM - in reply to meeee Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

meeee wrote:

what kind of training did the guy do? i mean he holds the american record which is pretty close to the world record, he had to be doing something right.



You don't even want to know. He trained very hard, very high volume and very fast....much harder than 95% of 800m men. He could have run a mile well under 4 min, if he had tried to, seriously, just based on his 800m training. I saw his coach Merle Mcgee burn out many other guys, just using them as rabbits for Johnny during his track work.
que?
RE: JOHNNY GRAY TRAINING 7/23/2008 9:39PM - in reply to Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
[quote]1:42.6 wrote:

Johnny employed some unorthodox training methods.
For example, to challenge himself while training with the SMTC he would walk up to Carl Lewis, slap him across the face, and then run like hell. With a small headstart, he still needed to run sub 22 for 200 meters to hold off Carl. Somwhere between 200 and 300 Carl would give up and Johnny was safe.

If you had stopped here you would have had me fooled...
Off the Grid
RE: JOHNNY GRAY TRAINING 7/23/2008 9:52PM - in reply to crazykyle26 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
"swing", "good" and "fresh" are directly from Igloi. JG trains pretty much like the LATC did in the late 50s/early 60s.
Orville has commented on Igloi and his practices many times. It has been mimicked by others, including Coe. The main percept is to run for at least 60 minutes, and in that time do some hard running. Thats it.

Notice that there is not as much range in intensity. 16x200 w/ every 4th hard. Easy enough. Next day, a little intensity as well.

It falls into the "moderate/moderate" vs "hard/easy" camp.
bttrthansx
RE: JOHNNY GRAY TRAINING 7/23/2008 10:07PM - in reply to the advocate Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

the advocate wrote:


Coach D wrote:

"Fresh" doesn't have much meaning in a tempo run, unless you were using his system for intervals and used the same intensity (arm carriage) for a longer run.


You wouldn't call Gray's "fresh" paced workouts in his off-season as tempo/threshold runs? Maybe take a look at what the three guys representing the US in the 800 did in the fall and winter for tempo runs. There's a striking resemblence.

Threshold runs might not have been "discovered," but it sure doesn't mean they weren't being practiced with some regularity by the world's best at the time (down under).


johnny's fresh workouts were by no means "tempo" runs. johnny rarely did "tempo."
OrvilleAtkins
RE: JOHNNY GRAY TRAINING 7/23/2008 10:11PM - in reply to Coach D Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Coach D,
I think your post sums up Igloi's methods very well. We called the four intensities that you mention tempos. I never heard of a plain "tempo run" until many years after I had left the SMTC. If Coach Igloi had requested that I do a tempo run, I would have run a "good speed" run. My interpretation of "fresh" was to run briskly or a little faster than "easy". Joe Douglas was Johnny Gray's agent. Johnny Gray's coach in High School and thereafter was Merle McGee. Merle is the High School coach who suggested that Gray race at 880 yards rather than two miles. Joe and Merle shared an apartment when they were both being coached by Coach Igloi. They later teamed up to both coach the Santa Monica Track Club. Coach Igloi coached many runners who broke World, Hungarian, United States and Greek Records.
present
RE: JOHNNY GRAY TRAINING 7/23/2008 10:27PM - in reply to really Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

really wrote:

I don't think the Kenyan[sic] speak shawhilli[sic].


You're wrong. Almost all of them do. The country's "official" language is English, but the "national" language is Swahili (aka Kiswahili). Most Kenyans, especially those with any education, speak Kiswahili in addition to their local/tribal language.

http://kenya.rcbowen.com/people/
OrvilleAtkins
RE: JOHNNY GRAY TRAINING 7/23/2008 10:31PM - in reply to Off the Grid Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Coach Igloi was probably the first Track Coach to use "sets" extensively. "Swing" and "speed" referred to a runner's leg action not the runners pace. The Los Angeles Athletic Cub, the sposor of The Los Angeles Track Club, stopped sponsoring Coach Igloi and our club in the spring of 1966. The club then moved from training at Dorsey High School to Santa Monica City College. As Coach D said, it is all on the Mihaly Igloi thread along with a post or two by Bob Schul.
crazykyle26
RE: JOHNNY GRAY TRAINING 7/24/2008 11:05PM - in reply to OrvilleAtkins Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
fresh runs r definatly not tempo...they r more of a fast but relaxed pace almost like a steady pace...bttrthnsx and i no for a FACT
JRinaldi
RE: JOHNNY GRAY TRAINING 7/25/2008 2:28AM - in reply to crazykyle26 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
The post above about Johnny's training does not include the second session they ran every day. KD, who is currently coached by Johnny, follows a very similar pattern to what Johnny use to do. An example of a session he did in May this year is below;

14/05/2008
9AM
20min WU and 10x100m strides
2x400m good speed with 200m (easy) jog 52, 52sec
3 laps jog
6x150m with 50m jog rec all fresh
1 lap jog
2x400m good speed with 200m (easy) jog 52, 51sec
3 laps jog
6x150m with 50m jog rec all fresh
1 lap jog
2x400m good speed with 200m (easy) jog 51, 50sec
4 laps jog
1x150m good speed build up ~16
4 laps CD

4:30PM
2 miles WU
3x800 Good, Fresh, Good (800 jog btw)
1 mile CD

It's difficult to look at just one session in isolation, as it really doesn't give you a clear idea of what the weeks and months before look like. But most track days (Mon, Tues, Thurs) would look like this.
og
RE: JOHNNY GRAY TRAINING 7/25/2008 9:01AM - in reply to JRinaldi Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
can someone translate Igoli's terms into times. Assume the person's pr in the mile is 4 minutes

What pace per 400 does Easy, Fresh, Good and Hard translate into?
Pages: | 1 | 2 |