bump...?
bump...?
as an 800m runner i have recently come to conclusion that it is all about speed.
speed, speed, speed. BY this i mean 200 and 400 speed rather than 30 or 40 yard speed.
In the words of peter coe "Endurance will get you the finish line but speed will get you there first."
you would be wrong
speed is a ncessary compnent, but keep in mind the race is ~60% aerobic; and the second half is nearly all aerobic
if the guy who started this thread was unjured, then he probably got injured due to high volume. if he was doing high volume, then his body probably wasn't getting enough time to recover and as a result, he got injured. you're not going to get fast by staying injured or staying too tired to run well. we're talking about the 800 here. think about what system you're working here. this race requires training that involves a lot of strength and speed. if you want some nifty things to trow into your training, try this: hill combos(do once a week)- find a hill 50-70meters in length, a bit steep. run up once for warm up and start the combo's. skip up, jog down, go backwards up, jog down, and finally sprint up. that's one set. do between 4-6, depending on ability level. start doing these three weeks prior to reg season and continure doing them for about 3 more weeks into it.
track work- first half of comp. season. do 800's, 1000's,and some 1200's at T-pace with about 1 minute recovery. remember these intervals should make up 8% of total mileage; 10k limit.
2nd half- start of 2nd of season- 400's and 600's at I-pace(93-95% effort) with about 1 minute recovery.
last part of 2nd half of season- HOT 200's and 400's with full recovery. other runs, such as 20-40 min's, should be done at easy effort to recover.
right now im doing the following workouts:
--8-10x400m starting in 64 and dropping to 60, about 1:45 recovery.
--6x800m in 2:20-2:25 on a loop with small undulations, followed by as many 150m hills as i can do while keeping my form, 1:30 recovery.
--5-6 mile increasing pace tempo run. usually drop from about 6:20 to 5:30 or faster.
Im also doing about 40+ miles a week in addition to those workouts. Does this sound like good prep work for fall track for a 800/1500 guy?
kingofthehalf wrote:
right now im doing the following workouts:
--8-10x400m starting in 64 and dropping to 60, about 1:45 recovery.
--6x800m in 2:20-2:25 on a loop with small undulations, followed by as many 150m hills as i can do while keeping my form, 1:30 recovery.
--5-6 mile increasing pace tempo run. usually drop from about 6:20 to 5:30 or faster.
Im also doing about 40+ miles a week in addition to those workouts. Does this sound like good prep work for fall track for a 800/1500 guy?
Mileage seems a bit low....but what I would like to know is what is your cycle like? Is this a 7 day, 14 day, 21 day cycle of workouts? and curious as to no mention of a long run - of course on 40 mpw - what is a long run...
and when is the first race for you - x-c or waiting until winter racing?
I'm not trying to give you advice, I'm curious.
actually i messed up when doing my totals. i do those workouts in the evening, and do about 7 or more every morning. on the weekends i go about 10-12 miles each day. so about 55 a week. the first race is winter racing.
bump
If you truly want to race the 800/1500 to the best of your abilities, then you need to read the Peter Coe book "800/1500 Racing and Training". Some of the advice on these threads is useless and you should be able to tell the good from the bad. If you expect to race a quality 800 in the spring then you need to be starting your aerobic base right now. The Coe book will show you the proper way to do that. Read the book, then ask questions on the things you don't understand.
I ran 147. High mileage is Bogus. Get quality work-outs in year round. That means you have to be as conissitant as you can and train systematically periodizing your training all YEAR! This the best way to get the most. Its a proven fact that power in distance runners provide a superior running economy. Vo2 max is not the optimal way to gage performance, that is a conventional way of thinking. Look at the last split in the winner of the 10,000 meters. 53 seconds that is just pure horspower.
Locklin
Does anyone have any ideas on how to train the High school 800 meter runner? surely a high school runner can't do 20 200's in a workout.
I did 20x200m in high school almost every week -- how do you cut it? I was at the training volume for it (60-80mpw), and the pace was slow enough (goal 1500m) and the rest was long enough (start a 90s 200m jog, then midway through drop to 75, and then for the last few go to 60s -- as the year progressed, start to cut down rest until they're all 75 or 60 and ultimately all 60s).
I'm on the Excessive Alcohol Consumption Method Plan. Essentially you drink at least one beer for every hour of a day. For those math majors out there, you know that it comes out to approxamately 24 beers in one day. Now for you astrology majors, you know that every day is basically longer than the next. The earth gradually lengthening over time in it's spin to the tune of approxamately 1 second every millenia. So if you want to round up, it would still be 24 beers since our actual day is roughly 23.89 hours. Furthermore, we all need to sleep. Some people call for around 8 hours a day, but for us insomniacs, we only need about 4 hours of sleep per day. That means that those 4 hours will need to be made up in the awake period. Beer drinking can occur during a run, or even during sleep via an IV. Through this method, a constant state of uphoria is felt where invincibility also sets in. When intoxicated or "drunk" anything can be achieved. There's no limit to what you can do so believe in yourself and set the bar as high as possible. In fact, go the the bars as often as possible. Follow this method and I promise you that you will achieve more success than phathomable. Godspeed.
St. Nick
Aisha - 20x200s for a HS'er is not that big, I have heard fellow HS'ers refer to that session as more of a fun session than something serious, say it's like doing heaps of strides.
Thread in general - Why does everyone say that 50-60MPW is low mileage? and is not going to build a large aerobic base? Running average 8miles a day isn't exactly going to make you fat is it?
I have found when i've been trying to increase my mileage by about 10k/week that I can manage it simply by putting in a few extra K's here and there by doing extra warmup/warmdown laps or an extra 2or3k on a recovery run, but is there any benefit in doing this? I don't feel there is.
The only thing I can think of is that during these extra few miles being jogged you are developing a small extra amount of aerobic fitness? But wouldnt it be better to do 1more mile rep rather than 1mile extra warm down?
Here is my question (for a senior/knowledge poster, ie.Renato prehaps)....If you have 2athletes that do the exact same training, but one runs about 2k warmup/warmdown in hard training sessions (say 3X/week) and has recovery runs of about 5k (say 8X/week) and the other does 4k wu/wd and recovery runs of 10k, is this extra 52k/week going to be worth that much to the second runner? (we are talking two 800m runners here)
Could someone enlighten me as to the advantage of these extra few Km's that to me serve no purpose other than being able to say "I ran XXXmiles this week"?
Thanks
I just dont see how a female athlete in high school who is a sophomore will benefit from doing 20x200 meters for a workout. Not to mention...there are 42 other girls on the team. I'm trying to give my athletes the most beneficial workout that I can within a 1 and a half hour period. So, any suggestions?
Aisha,
The one thing I will say is that I look at the overall time spent during the workout.
20x200m @ 1500m pace w/200m jog is a very good workout and can be a cruising workout or it can be very hard and taxing depending on amount of time for that jog. It's a big endurance workout.
If you're a HS male w/ a goal mile time of 4:30, the 200s are at 33.5 or so. So let's say he does the first ten with 90s 200m jog, the next five with 75s 200m jog, and the final four with 60s jog. You will see really quickly if they're a strong runner or not, as well as in the coming days. From start to finish that's 11min10s of hard running with 25:15 of rest.
If you were to have, say a 6min girl miler do the exact same workout and just adjust the speed she'd be running 15min of hard running with less recovery. So adjust the workout. Have the girls do 16 and start them as high as 2min and drop them to 75s rest.
But of course, a workout like this requires a lot of aerobic running behind it which is unlikely to be found in your coaching. The girls were running on avg about 50 and occasionally 60 mi weeks, the guys more 70 to 80. Remember, this was something built up year after year.
And it terms of the number of kids, that's what watches and groups are for. Divide up the kids by ability, group 1, group 2, etc. and assign a Watch-God who is in charge of hitting and recording the split on their watch. If you can't have someone there to take their splits as they come across, then have the Watch Gods report the splits back to you at the end of the workout.
Aisha wrote:
I just dont see how a female athlete in high school who is a sophomore will benefit from doing 20x200 meters for a workout. Not to mention...there are 42 other girls on the team. I'm trying to give my athletes the most beneficial workout that I can within a 1 and a half hour period. So, any suggestions?
It depends on what the intensity and rest are. I don't think you'll find any hs girls (or boys) who can do 20 X 200 at 800 pace with 30 sec rest like Kipketer. But 20 X 200 (or maybe even 30 X 200 or 20 X 300) at 2K-3K pace with equal time recovery (vVO2max) is a very potent workout, which does pay dividends in terms of aerobic power and lactate threshold. Also the 16-12-8-4 breakdown that Krummenacker does (also BK) is helpful for aerobic power.
For the Lactate tolerance stuff, I think there is a process that you go through:
2-3X200 (60 sec/8 min) => 6X300 (2-3 min) => 3X400 (3-4 min)
And then, closer to peak season:
3 X 400 => 2 X 500 => 1-2 X 600 all fast with long rest (15- 30 min)
What hell would a high school sophomore need to do 20 X 200 for 800 meter training. Give me a break. Sure its a good workout, except for the fact that your talking about the average girl high school runner. 20 X 200 will run her off in a hurry. That is way to much of a work load for her.
I believe that I said it's 1500m specific. And Speed Kills suggested 3k pace, also good.