| Centrifugal Bumble Puppy |
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There have been some other high school performances that rival or maybe surpass any of these. Many of the sprint and field event records, like Michael Carter's other-worldly bomb of 81'3.5" (provided there was a conversion to the international shot), might rank as high on a world list as Webb's mile time. But high schoolers tend to perform better in the short, explosive events relative to adults, while they usually require more maturation to achieve the same level in distance running. So comparing a high schooler's 20.13 or 44.69 or 7'7" (all world class performances) to a two-mile of 8:34.40 (not a world class performace) isn't really fair due to the maturation issue. Looking at the middle distance or long distance performances, Rupp's 13:37.91 is probably better than 8:34.40 at face value. However, Rupp did have the advantage of being hoovered along by other runners in his race. On the other hand, Rupp beat a record that was older (and more long-standing) than the hallowed Jim Ryun mile record that Webb beat, and one which may have been harder for a high school runner to achieve, again due to the maturation issue. So which performance is better? A largely solo 8:34 or a running-with-elites 13:37? Or might Lindgren's 13:44.0 on a poor-quality cinder track be the best HS distance performance of all time? And could any of these runners beat Chapa's 28:32.7 even if they really wanted to? That one (because of the age factor again) might be every bit as impressive. They're all amazing in their own right. But at least now there's no doubt who ran the best HS 2-mile ever. Breaking the record outright was enough to lay that to rest, but doing it from the front makes it far-and-away a better performance than Nelson's 8:36.3. In comparing HS mile records, don't forget Jim Ryun beat the Olympic Champion! No, it wasn't a 3:53.43, but you can only beat who shows up, right? In this case, it was the best in the world. So the guy was a baller and it's conceivable he could have run 3:53 or better in the same race Webb ran. And that 3:58.3 on a cinder track (with a 53.9 last 440) in a HS-only meet could be as impressive a HS mile as has ever been run. So was Ryun better than Webb as a high schooler? It might have depended on who else was in the race and how it played out, but it certainly would have been a race to see. For some reason, I can't see Webb managing that 3:58.3 cinder track race, but maybe Ryun was topped out at 3:55.3 in HS and couldn't have beaten Webb's record time in any kind of race. We'll never know. It's all just grist for the speculation mill. What is clear is that high school running is as good as it has ever been, at least at the top. This Fernandez kid just took down a legendary record pretty much by himself. And don't forget Chris Derrick, who ran a totally solo 13:55.96, a mark which stacks up pretty well with a low-8:40s 2M. And neither of these guys won the FLCC championship! That Fout kid (like Withrow beating Rupp and Kiptoo and McDougal several years ago) must be pretty good himself to have beaten these superstars. Hats off to Fernandez. |
| jamese1045 |
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"Nice run, THO?" That's like, "Nice footwork, Mr. Ali, but I can't be a fan of yours because of you sound conceited..." I'm proud to be a fan of German's---and he's totally allowed to call me one. Anyway, he isn't saying that with the undeserved and swollen ego you imply--he's a very nice guy all around imo. |
| All-time run |
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Best post on thread.[/quote] Hardly - Dwigt is the idiot. If laps 2 and 3 were in the 63 range rather than high 65 it gets you to around 8:30 - who is to say he couldn't have nudged under? It was clear if you watched it that German wanted to get in front and click off 63/64 pace early on and had to pass Puskedra three times to finally get in front for good. |
| Rhinestone Cockpiece |
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Here was his response... Tommy posted about 7 hours ago. While the Kenyan's have run faster at the same age (albeit their ages are disputable) there is a reason this record stood for 29 years. This kid looks like Salazar running. Runs smooth, but looks like he's about to sit down in a big comfy chair. Awesome performance. And sorry, the announcing was second rate, although I don't announce for a living so it is what it is. |
| johnny rotten |
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I was there. The crowd was somewhat sparse and was a bit quiet for the first two laps, so the announcer tried to get the crowd excited. It worked, especially in the second mile, so he kept it up. I thought he was terrific in egging the crowd on so that whatever energy they had would help the kid along. The lapt two laps were electric. |
| Central High 1988 |
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It is very interesting to see the runners on this board who have run elite times are not saying anything bad about this kid but those of us who only wish to be 1/2 as good as German are complaining. Note to everyone....JUST LET IT GO. He is 17 years old, took down a long standing record, and really seems to be a humble kid. Try to put yourself in his shoes. Of course you would be excited and say things such as "wanting to thank your fans." I know at 17 years old, all I really cared about was running, getting the car for Saturday night, and trying to get laid. He simply doesnt have the hindsight of age as the rest of us have. Lets be happy for German. After all, this record he set certainly doesn't guarantee he his destined to become an Olympian. Jeff Nelson unfortunately ran into some tough luck after HS and probably never got to his full potential. Therefore, German is really only at "Step 1" of becomeing a true International Elite. Lets all cheer for him and encourage his progress. - Philip Passen |
| njmatt |
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If nothing else, this kid has quite the future as a rabbit. I mean wow. He's like a metronome out there, it's amazing to see. |
| Hwy 6 |
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Just watched the video. I've never seen a kid look that good while running that fast before in my life! I would not be surprised to see him run faster in a field in which he'd have to really fight for top 5 placement. Incredible time-trialer! |
| Sagarin |
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Who else thinks that German will become yet another casuality on the long list of California prep elites that become flops in college, Jeff Nelson among those? At least he's getting his 15 minutes of fame. |
| Fun in the trunk |
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Not me. I think he will be a great performer in college and one of a few guys looking to crack 13. |
| BIG3 |
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In response to "All-time run"... I had this long thing typed up last night, but my computer crapped out on me. So, I will try to replicate it best I can. First, to say Ritz didn't even live up to a bar is an extreme understatement and ignorant at that. He, along with the others in the Big 3, paved the way for these kids now. They started and continue to lead the resurgence of American distance running... and to whoever thinks the runners in this race will even compare to the Big3 in the next 5-10 years... that is ridiculous. Ritz will be an Olympian TWICE before his 26th birthday and has the potential to make TWO MORE TEAMS!!! Webb also can secure his spot on a second Olympic team. Hall will have also made a WC and Olympic team. The very thing prohibiting these kids achieving the same is the BIG3 of the class of '01. I will once again say that the run by Fernandez today was EXTREMELY FAST FOR A HIGH SCHOOLER... HENCE THE RECORD. However, a handful of races does not establish dominance. Ritz was the epitome of dominance... HE DID NOT LOSE TO A HIGH SCHOOLER FOR OVER TWO (2 for the layperson) YEARS! When he did lose in those years it was to... let's see... a guy named Teg, a guy they call Fam and some Ethiopian... his name... um... oh yeah Bekele. Sure, when Fernandez ran 14:25 in cross the Brojo's really hyped it... but Ritzenhein's senior year at the state meet he ran 14:10!!!! (04:28.20 09:02.40 13:40.70 14:10.40) beating second place by 55 seconds. That second place was a nobody, right? FALSE, it was Tim Moore who went on to win FLCC in 2001. Ritz set a course record in every XC race his senior year with the exception of FLCC where he missed his OWN record and only running 14:35 and beating Webb and Hall in the process. He was smashing 9 minutes indoors as a junior. He was running 8:40's as a Junior... INDOORS! Greatness or dominance is not established in a few races. Going over 2 years, while racing guys named Webb, Hall, Rohatinsky, Sage, Dobson, Tegenkamp... etc. and NOT LOSING is dominance. Let's just let the stats speak for themselves. FLCC Titles: Ritz 2 (14:29, 14:35) Fernandez 0 Outdoor 2 Mile Titles: Ritz 3 Fernandez 1 How about indoor 2 miles, indoor relay anchor legs, outdoor relay anchor legs, having to run in every dual meet and still accomplishing all of this.... etc... Fernandez did run a fast time yesterday... but to say Ritz didn't live up to the bar is ridiculous. He set the bar and his accomplishments and dominance in high school will not be bested for a long time. Fernandez may go on to do very well in college and beyond... and only time will tell. However, even in college Ritz ran 13:27 as a freshman, 27:38 in his first 10K ever, 4th at NCAA cross as a freshman (behind Torres, Kimani and Craig), went undefeated his last year of cross for CU (read that story... he had only started running in September after a HUGE layoff). Well, I think you've had enough... next time, before you make ignorant statements, do some research and learn yourself some history. Oh, to the Billy Madison reference... I was quoting that movie before you were born. |
| walk to work |
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lets just hope he doesn't become a cabada and start talking ebonics. |
| jonesy. |
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there may be a long list of california prep sensations who didn't succeed in college, but that's only because of the very large number of cal prep sensations (of course, you could say that their favorable weather and comp, plus the very good hs training some get at places like jesuit bring them closer to their max in hs). fernandez was not a high mileage guy. he didn't do much speed training. he's consistent. the doubling didn't seem to hurt him. I would be ecstatic if I were the Oklahoma State coach. He just ran 7:59.5 3k enroute, alone (even hampered by the #2 guy in the early pacing). In other words, he'd probably go low-7:50s in an NCAA race now. That means he'd have a good shot at scoring at NCAA 3k indoor champs, at 17. It is very, very rare for a high school distance runner to be a potential NCAA nationals scorer already. And with the lack of speed work, the lesser comp in practice, the low mileage, and the lack of race competition, there is every reason to think that Fernandez is going to improve a great deal in college. The only caveat is that he might have some adjustment problems initially with the change to the college training regimen. |
| Stoned |
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I suppose if that line had come from Animal House it would be a classic, right?[/quote] "Did we give up when the Germans bombed pearl harbor" |
| dwigt schrude |
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I'm going to limit my response to say that you don't know that much about running. I watched the race, Puskedra did not cost Fernandez 4.5 seconds. |
| well done |
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just watched his video. he reminds me of mo farah |
| whaaaaat? |
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wow - take those three out of your mouth, you'll be able to breathe better. Nobody has said that the accomplishments of the "Big3" weren't there and that they were unsuccessful. You are the one tearing this class down to try and pump them up. You are correct - that class has paved the way for American distance running and will continue to do so. But to say this class doesn't compare - they just had 3 guys go sub 8:50 in the same race. And one who went 8:50 is a 4:01 miler. Oh, and they didn't have the 13:55 guy in the race. Oh, and the FLN champion wasn't there either. Ritz and Hall and Webb were all on the national scene early in their careers (as sophs and juniors), there is no doubt about that. But if you look at what these kids have done, you absolutely cannot say that they don't have the potential to do just as well in their future years. Again, get the Big3's balls out of your mouth and think for a second. Nobody is saying this class is outright better than those 3 guys - but there is no way that you can say that this class isn't in the same league. Sure they don't have the post-highschool credentials yet since they haven't graduated, but they have the potential to do A LOT of great things for distance running. The Big3 brought on the surge, but this day belongs to German and the potential that he, and all of his graduating class, posess. |
| Justin C. |
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http://www.usatf.org/promotions/Top25Moments/ Shot Put = 16 Webb = 23 |
| 2miler |
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They should take Marion Jones off that list! |
| hesse |
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congratulations german... my brother and i watched the race and then walked around all evening feeling inspired. why would two guys who finished running college years ago feel inspired? well, because it is plain wonderful to see hard work and talent come together in a runner, in a race as they have for you over these past few weeks. Watching that race last night and having this humble kid run 419 and then 415 so gracefully will be something i will not forget. i still think the double of a few weeks ago was one of the finest performances i have ever heard of (relative to age/level). so keep it up man. many of us are rooting for you and looking forward to see how you progress. thanks for the inspiration. hesse |