what is the THIRD most important workout?

interesting schedule wrote:

assuming we can all agree that long runs are the most important,

Absolutely wrong. Long runs are the least important aspect of training. So unimportant, that you could get away with not doing them at ll if you wanted.

you can't replace an easy run with a workout?

For 5k-10k and in general I would say

1.Tempos/fartleks/progressions

2.Hills

3.Sprints

4.Gym workouts

BUT it depends on the physiological demands of the event.

100/200/400-focus is on power development, mechanics, starts, relaxation at top speed. A touch of endurance for 400 meters, probably in the form of either 500-800m repeats much slower then race pace or 200s with short recovery, not a 10 mile run.

800-a LOT of ways to go with this one...you need a very good base, excellent mechanics, power development and great tactical awareness...chances are you will need to sacrafice some aspects of your training for others

1500m-An excellent base is crucial, power development is needed and tactical awareness is needed, mechanics also important

5000m Threshold and endurance work becomes much more important then 1500m-you cannot fake 12 1/2 laps of the track as you might be able to 3 3/4. Power development is needed but not crucial.

10000m-half marathon-Threshold work becomes key. For the 10000m fast track sprinting work is still needed but for a good half it is not necessarily needed.

Marathon-Endurance, Effeciency and Fat burning along with a fair amount of threshold work, some interval work and a 'dash' of pure speed.

weekly 100's a day or 2 after the long runs.

8 mile easy run (you can do it as a progression run if you'd like, depending upon how strong you are. start at ER pace and increase by about 10" per mile. Your last mile should be your tempo run pace).

get on the track and do 8-12x100m at 400m goal pace, with 300 jog recovery. do this in spikes, racing flats, or barefoot on the track. i wouldn't time them the first 2-3 times, just get a feel for the workout, then start timing.

that's an 8 mile run with 2-3 more miles. you can even do a mile cool down if time permits. total miles for the day is 10-12 on a single workout. doing the hundreds at the end will activate your fast-twitch fibers after your slow twitch fibers have been utilized during the long run and the 8 mile run. this will develop your kick, which is always necessary from 800m to marathon.

What about a tempo run (6-8 miles) over few hills, or even a fartlek session for speed over hilly terrain?

Mix em up to beat boredom and get best of both worlds!

malmo wrote:

Absolutely wrong. Long runs are the least important aspect of training. So unimportant, that you could get away with not doing them at ll if you wanted.

That's interesting, having read Steve Moneghetti's book I believe he thought that the long run was in fact the most important run.

:)

Aus wrote:

malmo wrote:

Absolutely wrong. Long runs are the least important aspect of training. So unimportant, that you could get away with not doing them at ll if you wanted.

That's interesting, having read Steve Moneghetti's book I believe he thought that the long run was in fact the most important run.

:)

Yea, and what the hell did this Steve Moneghetti character do?

well...... wrote:

Yea, and what the hell did this Steve Moneghetti character do?

Steve Moneghetti PB:

5k: 13,25

10k: 27,47

HM: 1:00,06

marathon: 2.08,16

Malmo, please explain yourself.

I might suggest for 800m-5000m racing longer runs are not as important as MaxVO2 or tempo runs but you could still benefit from doing long runs during base training. For 10km-13.1m racing I would think you'd benefit a lot from them and of course marathon running thrives on being able to run long.

First off, your initial assumption is wrong. Secondly, I don't think you can say something is "the most important" in general because it depends on where you are in your training. If you are beat down from a hard week or two, the most important run is an easy run. If you are just getting into shape I'd say the most important is hill repeats. If you have a lot of mileage under your belt I'd say long tempo runs, or long repeats (i.e. miles or 2ks). By the way...how come you are only allowed 1 workout per week? And how many miles per week are you running? That may help people give you advice on the best workout.

A long run is not training any system specific to a 10k runner. It simply adds more aerobic load. I would argue that long runs are the most overused method of training by American 5k/10kers in place of more intense workouts.

I think that the importance of the long run depends on the specific training program. If you're running 100+ mpw, you're already getting a ton of aerobic work and it probably isn't all that important to get in one run that's longer than all the others. If you're doing 60 mpw, there's probably a greater benefit to the long run.

Um... wrote:

By the way...how come you are only allowed 1 workout per week? And how many miles per week are you running? That may help people give you advice on the best workout.

it's not that i'm allowed that, it's just most convenient for me, and i didn't want people giving suggestions outside that limitation. i'm running 45-50mpw, trying to work my way up to 75mpw after 2.5 years of no running after college. i figure my current volume (45-50) will do for the next few months, as i worked up from scratch over the last 6 months, doing only easy runs, long runs, and tempo runs. my goal is to be in shape to run some PRs in 2009. (PRs: 800- 1:57.8, 1500- 4:05, 3k- 8:42, 5k- 15:07).

so, in those next few months i don't want to increase volume; i want to increase my overall running ability while staying at the same volume, doing one long run and one workout (a tempo run alternated with ***something new***) every 7-8 days.

during the summer, i might run some 5k-8k races, so those kind of workouts would be good; however, historically, i've been more of an 800-3000m runner, so i respond well to those kind of workouts as well.

so, letsrun pundits, what should my semi-weekly ***something new*** workout be?

If that's the case, then I'd suggest alternating the tempo runs with hill intervals (200-400m). Another one you can throw in there is hilly tempos. And it never hurts to do strides (anywhere from 4-6x75m to 8x200, with full rest) after every run or most runs. That helped me build a stronger kick for my races. Other than that, maybe throw in some 400 repeats, something like 10x400 or even up to 20x400 if you want to be really bold. Obviously the amount and pace depends on your goals, too. I probably didn't tell you anything you didn't already know but it helped pass the time for me, so thanks!

Aus wrote:

That's interesting, having read Steve Moneghetti's book I believe he thought that the long run was in fact the most important run.

:)

and he could completely do without them if he wanted. No other aspect of training could one completely do without.

Long run fan wrote:

Malmo, please explain yourself.

I already have. The long run is the most overrated aspect of training. If you wanted/needed, you could completely do without it. That makes it the least important run.

This is not the same as advising one not to do them. What I'm saying is to get all of the other pieces of the puzzle in place before you get in the long runs.

I would say gym workouts for core strength or any other muscle groups that you in particular find weaker than they should be relative to the rest of you.

As for one and two, I'd say easy workouts are the most important, followed by hard workouts, since you could run easy every single day, but you could not run hard every single day. That's been my (albeit limited) experience, at least.

malmo wrote:

Long run fan wrote:

Malmo, please explain yourself.

I already have. The long run is the most overrated aspect of training. If you wanted/needed, you could completely do without it. That makes it the least important run.

This is not the same as advising one not to do them. What I'm saying is to get all of the other pieces of the puzzle in place before you get in the long runs.

I would agree with this. Suppose that you do 2 hard runs a week plus one long run. For simplicity, assume that one hard workout is always a threshold or a tempo, and one hard workout is VO2 work or faster, or a race. Now suppose that I force you to cut one aspect out of your schedule, the endurance day, the speed day, or the long run. If you choose to cut the long run, your mileage will just be redistributed. If you cut one of the workouts, it will be replaced with a second workout of the uncut type.

After two months, you have an important race. The question is, which cut leaves with the most CONFIDENCE leading into the race? For me, I would cut the long run. I would lose a lot more confidence if I either didn't do end high end aerobic work or any faster-than-race-pace work.

I believe the only exception would be for the marathon. Long runs become much more important here and shouldn't be neglected.

In the end, the most important aspect of training for any distance 800m and up is easy running. Cut out all your easy runs and see what happens to your performance.

Unholy Cumulus wrote:

I believe the only exception would be for the marathon. Long runs become much more important here and shouldn't be neglected.

.

Exactly.... and why? ... because for marathons long runs are event-specific training. But even for the marathon, if you wanted, you could train successfully without ever running over 10 miles on any single run.